1 00:01:06,050 --> 00:00:03,290 you're listening to IRA the inception 2 00:01:12,270 --> 00:01:10,109 are you ready for an epic journey the 3 00:01:14,940 --> 00:01:12,280 extraordinary phenomenon investigations 4 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:14,950 Council presents epic voyages 5 00:01:19,590 --> 00:01:17,530 come join us as we enter and experience 6 00:01:22,469 --> 00:01:19,600 their great mysteries of the world with 7 00:02:06,440 --> 00:01:22,479 tonight's host Aaron Jenkins aka 8 00:02:14,820 --> 00:02:10,139 and welcome to another fantastic edition 9 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:14,830 of epic voyages radio I am maverick aka 10 00:02:18,780 --> 00:02:16,570 dr. Aaron Jenkins 11 00:02:21,150 --> 00:02:18,790 I think it's the other way around anyway 12 00:02:26,640 --> 00:02:21,160 welcome all in hello from the great 13 00:02:29,670 --> 00:02:26,650 state of Texas in the Texas Hill Country 14 00:02:33,900 --> 00:02:29,680 so live broadcast tonight with a very 15 00:02:36,990 --> 00:02:33,910 special guest and we are live from the 16 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:37,000 valley of the giants with our special 17 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:39,610 guest dr. heather Lynn our show topic is 18 00:02:45,060 --> 00:02:42,490 the Cimmerian controversy a special 19 00:02:46,490 --> 00:02:45,070 report there are new excavations 20 00:02:49,530 --> 00:02:46,500 underware underway in ancient 21 00:02:51,540 --> 00:02:49,540 Mesopotamia join writer researcher and 22 00:02:53,430 --> 00:02:51,550 archaeologist dr. Heather LAN as she 23 00:02:55,980 --> 00:02:53,440 investigates who is behind the latest 24 00:03:01,230 --> 00:02:55,990 sumerian discovery in the ancient city 25 00:03:04,770 --> 00:03:01,240 of Ur what is its connection to big oil 26 00:03:06,660 --> 00:03:04,780 to bankers to the elite among many of 27 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:06,670 the new artifacts one stands out that 28 00:03:09,030 --> 00:03:08,290 has been quickly shipped off for 29 00:03:13,020 --> 00:03:09,040 analysis 30 00:03:14,970 --> 00:03:13,030 it speaks of Royal bloodlines that's 31 00:03:18,470 --> 00:03:14,980 gonna be your show tonight but first an 32 00:03:21,300 --> 00:03:18,480 update before we get to get to dr. Lynn 33 00:03:23,729 --> 00:03:21,310 Joe Taylor who I told you about the last 34 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:23,739 time I was on the air with you last 35 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:26,890 month Joe Taylor is on the men's that he 36 00:03:33,380 --> 00:03:30,370 still not fully recuperated he is really 37 00:03:36,509 --> 00:03:33,390 had a tremendous battle against this 38 00:03:39,150 --> 00:03:36,519 illness that he's been fighting but he 39 00:03:41,100 --> 00:03:39,160 is on the mend so thank you for all your 40 00:03:44,190 --> 00:03:41,110 thoughts concerns and prayers for Joe 41 00:03:47,430 --> 00:03:44,200 Taylor you know Joe and I go back 20 42 00:03:49,620 --> 00:03:47,440 years he's my digging buddy and we've 43 00:03:51,780 --> 00:03:49,630 dug a lot of dinosaurs out done a lot of 44 00:03:55,430 --> 00:03:51,790 work together in the field Joe is a 45 00:03:58,650 --> 00:03:55,440 legend in his own time and he really 46 00:04:01,289 --> 00:03:58,660 appreciated all your comments on his 47 00:04:04,500 --> 00:04:01,299 Facebook page and thoughts and concerns 48 00:04:08,610 --> 00:04:04,510 he really did so when Joe gets better 49 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:08,620 we're gonna have him back on the air but 50 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:11,650 thank you so much for for your concern 51 00:04:19,410 --> 00:04:16,810 for Joe secondly I have been traveling 52 00:04:20,970 --> 00:04:19,420 abroad the last time 53 00:04:23,940 --> 00:04:20,980 that I was on the air with you I've been 54 00:04:26,100 --> 00:04:23,950 all over the place and I can barely keep 55 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:26,110 up with myself I passed myself coming 56 00:04:32,670 --> 00:04:31,330 and going and in a sense and and I have 57 00:04:38,250 --> 00:04:32,680 to tell you lots of neat things are 58 00:04:40,980 --> 00:04:38,260 happening again the up for the 59 00:04:43,950 --> 00:04:40,990 theatrical documentary finding Noah will 60 00:04:46,590 --> 00:04:43,960 be out hopefully this fall or this 61 00:04:49,590 --> 00:04:46,600 winter it's a little behind schedule but 62 00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:49,600 good things come to those who wait and 63 00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:52,210 so it's going to be released in major 64 00:04:59,040 --> 00:04:55,810 theaters as soon as I get an update on 65 00:05:02,150 --> 00:04:59,050 that documentary release I'll have it up 66 00:05:06,780 --> 00:05:02,160 on my website at Aaron judkins dot-com 67 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:06,790 for the latest or you can go to WWF 68 00:05:12,150 --> 00:05:10,210 Indian or calm for the layest as well 69 00:05:16,170 --> 00:05:12,160 and see the video trailer for the movie 70 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:16,180 that's up now you can go see that so 71 00:05:20,730 --> 00:05:17,650 very interesting things are happening 72 00:05:23,370 --> 00:05:20,740 also if you would go to my website Aaron 73 00:05:24,810 --> 00:05:23,380 Jenkins calm because I need to know your 74 00:05:27,270 --> 00:05:24,820 opinion if you could help me out with 75 00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:27,280 something I've got a little pool going 76 00:05:34,410 --> 00:05:31,690 and I need your input so the the input 77 00:05:37,230 --> 00:05:34,420 is or the question I should say is would 78 00:05:39,450 --> 00:05:37,240 you rather see a show on Biblical 79 00:05:42,330 --> 00:05:39,460 Archaeology or would you rather see a TV 80 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:42,340 show on nation's civilizations that's 81 00:05:48,270 --> 00:05:45,250 the question that I'm posing so please 82 00:05:50,550 --> 00:05:48,280 your comments your input is welcome go 83 00:05:52,710 --> 00:05:50,560 to Aaron jetties calm put in your 84 00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:52,720 comments suggestions because we are 85 00:05:57,210 --> 00:05:54,370 working on something behind the scenes 86 00:06:00,150 --> 00:05:57,220 that it's still in the discussion phase 87 00:06:03,960 --> 00:06:00,160 but there's some interesting things 88 00:06:06,030 --> 00:06:03,970 coming about for man versus archeology 89 00:06:08,250 --> 00:06:06,040 pretty pretty neat stuff I'll tell you 90 00:06:11,100 --> 00:06:08,260 more as I can fill you in and I'll 91 00:06:13,860 --> 00:06:11,110 always keep you updated and thank you so 92 00:06:16,770 --> 00:06:13,870 much for following what I do now dr. 93 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:16,780 heather Lynn you know we had dr. Lynn 94 00:06:22,860 --> 00:06:19,810 scheduled for the show several months 95 00:06:26,100 --> 00:06:22,870 ago and dr. lynn was emergently 96 00:06:30,660 --> 00:06:26,110 hospitalized and we we had to reschedule 97 00:06:32,340 --> 00:06:30,670 her so now tonight live with this our 98 00:06:32,910 --> 00:06:32,350 special guest dr. heather Lynn Heather 99 00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:32,920 welcome 100 00:06:40,020 --> 00:06:36,970 to the show hi thank you it's great to 101 00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:40,030 be here we are so glad that you were 102 00:06:45,540 --> 00:06:43,210 feeling better by the way and you have 103 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:45,550 completely mended and healed and and 104 00:06:53,670 --> 00:06:49,450 back to your work and so thank you for 105 00:06:56,940 --> 00:06:53,680 coming on epic you know I saw your book 106 00:07:00,420 --> 00:06:56,950 the Cimmerian controversy on a Facebook 107 00:07:04,890 --> 00:07:00,430 post that someone had posted and it 108 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:04,900 really caught my attention and I wasn't 109 00:07:09,810 --> 00:07:06,730 really familiar with your work so I 110 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:09,820 wanted to learn more and as I went to 111 00:07:13,260 --> 00:07:11,770 your website and and begin to look at 112 00:07:15,390 --> 00:07:13,270 the other books you've written I was 113 00:07:17,430 --> 00:07:15,400 really intrigued not only intrigued I 114 00:07:20,090 --> 00:07:17,440 was really fascinated because you do 115 00:07:24,510 --> 00:07:20,100 some really really neat work Heather 116 00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:24,520 you're a archaeologist you're you're in 117 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:26,530 the field you're digging in the dirt 118 00:07:29,580 --> 00:07:28,210 like I do you get your hands dirty 119 00:07:33,060 --> 00:07:29,590 you're not scared to go out there and do 120 00:07:35,610 --> 00:07:33,070 that but you know I love it I love 121 00:07:38,070 --> 00:07:35,620 getting a little dirty did you become 122 00:07:39,510 --> 00:07:38,080 interested in ancient mysteries and 123 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:39,520 become an archaeologist how does that 124 00:07:48,270 --> 00:07:44,970 happen well as a kid as many kids do I 125 00:07:51,150 --> 00:07:48,280 was very much curious about ancient 126 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:51,160 mysteries and those types of things and 127 00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:54,010 of course as much as it it just is 128 00:07:59,250 --> 00:07:54,970 cliche 129 00:08:06,270 --> 00:07:59,260 I loved Indiana Jones I'll admit I'll 130 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:06,280 admit it I'm putting that out there so 131 00:08:10,620 --> 00:08:08,890 you know I was a curious kid and I had I 132 00:08:13,500 --> 00:08:10,630 was an only child so I had a lot of time 133 00:08:16,710 --> 00:08:13,510 on my hands and you know I'd go outside 134 00:08:18,870 --> 00:08:16,720 and play and next door there what used 135 00:08:21,630 --> 00:08:18,880 to be a house and it had it had been 136 00:08:23,910 --> 00:08:21,640 torn down and the remnants of the 137 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:23,920 foundation were still there and among 138 00:08:28,650 --> 00:08:26,530 that were just broken glass pieces of 139 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:28,660 cement it was it was a real nightmare 140 00:08:33,950 --> 00:08:31,210 not someplace my mother certainly wanted 141 00:08:38,190 --> 00:08:33,960 me to play but I used to go in there and 142 00:08:40,380 --> 00:08:38,200 dig and crawl around looking for relics 143 00:08:44,040 --> 00:08:40,390 or any kind of thing that I could find 144 00:08:46,710 --> 00:08:44,050 so it really started as you know young 145 00:08:48,990 --> 00:08:46,720 as 7 I just had this interest and 146 00:08:50,730 --> 00:08:49,000 finding things I wanted to explore I 147 00:08:53,369 --> 00:08:50,740 wanted to look for things and I was just 148 00:08:55,470 --> 00:08:53,379 always curious so you know but it didn't 149 00:08:59,160 --> 00:08:55,480 really stick with me because like all 150 00:09:01,679 --> 00:08:59,170 childhood dreams people just get caught 151 00:09:03,869 --> 00:09:01,689 up in in life and just put it to the 152 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:03,879 side and they try to pursue things 153 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:06,970 generally that are deemed I don't know 154 00:09:13,769 --> 00:09:09,930 more profitable more socially acceptable 155 00:09:16,019 --> 00:09:13,779 whatever so you know I I went to school 156 00:09:17,790 --> 00:09:16,029 and initially started going for 157 00:09:19,290 --> 00:09:17,800 something like business just something 158 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:19,300 real bland I hadn't really made up my 159 00:09:24,059 --> 00:09:21,730 mind on a major and so I just went and 160 00:09:27,660 --> 00:09:24,069 started taking some classes and you know 161 00:09:29,879 --> 00:09:27,670 among the general liberal arts set I had 162 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:29,889 to take some art history and things that 163 00:09:34,860 --> 00:09:31,930 I was really excited about and those are 164 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:34,870 the classes that really just spoke to me 165 00:09:41,340 --> 00:09:38,370 and and it occurred to me why am I here 166 00:09:43,530 --> 00:09:41,350 taking these classes I don't like but 167 00:09:45,210 --> 00:09:43,540 then you know the here the classes that 168 00:09:47,150 --> 00:09:45,220 I do like why am I not pursuing this 169 00:09:51,210 --> 00:09:47,160 who's really in charge here is it just 170 00:09:52,650 --> 00:09:51,220 you know me or is it society or what 171 00:09:54,689 --> 00:09:52,660 other people are telling me I should do 172 00:09:56,610 --> 00:09:54,699 so I just made the decision I'm gonna 173 00:09:59,069 --> 00:09:56,620 pursue my dreams and just start studying 174 00:10:01,519 --> 00:09:59,079 so but of course that was mainstream 175 00:10:05,189 --> 00:10:01,529 archaeology I still had an interest in 176 00:10:07,199 --> 00:10:05,199 kind of ancient mysteries but I only 177 00:10:09,540 --> 00:10:07,209 entertained those in the you know 178 00:10:11,100 --> 00:10:09,550 privacy of my own mind or you know for 179 00:10:13,499 --> 00:10:11,110 entertainment purposes you could say 180 00:10:15,929 --> 00:10:13,509 because I certainly wasn't going to you 181 00:10:18,329 --> 00:10:15,939 know study that in a traditional sense 182 00:10:22,079 --> 00:10:18,339 so I went the traditional route always 183 00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:22,089 kind of keeping the open mind to other 184 00:10:29,699 --> 00:10:27,490 ideas and theories Wow and so you really 185 00:10:33,030 --> 00:10:29,709 took an interest at an earlier age like 186 00:10:34,710 --> 00:10:33,040 like I did and you actually went kind of 187 00:10:37,410 --> 00:10:34,720 a different route 188 00:10:40,799 --> 00:10:37,420 I was very similar in that that that I 189 00:10:42,179 --> 00:10:40,809 went into the medical field first but 190 00:10:45,809 --> 00:10:42,189 you just can't get away from your 191 00:10:48,449 --> 00:10:45,819 passion and that's what I think is the 192 00:10:51,449 --> 00:10:48,459 neat thing about it it's never too late 193 00:10:53,939 --> 00:10:51,459 to pursue your passion it is never too 194 00:10:55,740 --> 00:10:53,949 late into and to reach your dreams 195 00:10:58,829 --> 00:10:55,750 whether that's in archaeology or 196 00:10:59,970 --> 00:10:58,839 whatever you know I also love to play 197 00:11:02,160 --> 00:10:59,980 music and 198 00:11:04,830 --> 00:11:02,170 and you know when I was growing up I was 199 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:04,840 gonna be a rock star you know I had long 200 00:11:09,060 --> 00:11:06,250 hair and I was the you know the whole 201 00:11:11,700 --> 00:11:09,070 80s thing going on and that's what I was 202 00:11:14,610 --> 00:11:11,710 gonna do but you know I'm glad that 203 00:11:16,050 --> 00:11:14,620 dream at least you know at least that 204 00:11:18,150 --> 00:11:16,060 part of my life I'm glad that didn't 205 00:11:20,330 --> 00:11:18,160 come true now it came true in a sense 206 00:11:26,070 --> 00:11:20,340 that I still have a passion for music 207 00:11:29,700 --> 00:11:26,080 but it wasn't really the thing that was 208 00:11:32,340 --> 00:11:29,710 really my destiny and and now that you 209 00:11:34,680 --> 00:11:32,350 know I found that path for me it sounds 210 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:34,690 like you found the same you know kind of 211 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:36,850 kind of your path in the same way you 212 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:41,130 found your destiny eventually and now 213 00:11:50,130 --> 00:11:45,730 you're you're doing some great work tell 214 00:11:51,930 --> 00:11:50,140 us a little bit about you know you you 215 00:11:56,970 --> 00:11:51,940 kind of started in the traditional sense 216 00:12:00,300 --> 00:11:56,980 in archaeology but you kind of begin to 217 00:12:04,410 --> 00:12:00,310 look at some other things that were 218 00:12:07,010 --> 00:12:04,420 showing you a bigger picture what 219 00:12:12,300 --> 00:12:07,020 prompted you to leave the traditional 220 00:12:14,820 --> 00:12:12,310 mainstream archaeology that's um 221 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:14,830 you know it I never really intended on 222 00:12:20,340 --> 00:12:18,010 to leave not certainly not because I had 223 00:12:24,270 --> 00:12:20,350 other interest I know so many professors 224 00:12:26,610 --> 00:12:24,280 who have the most eccentric interests 225 00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:26,620 and they they have those and it doesn't 226 00:12:33,210 --> 00:12:29,890 cause them to to up and leave so my my 227 00:12:35,700 --> 00:12:33,220 interest in ancient mysteries if you own 228 00:12:40,860 --> 00:12:35,710 it that really wasn't what spurred my 229 00:12:44,070 --> 00:12:40,870 decision it it came down to a time where 230 00:12:47,910 --> 00:12:44,080 I worked at a local community college 231 00:12:51,660 --> 00:12:47,920 and I worked in one of their research 232 00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:51,670 labs doing archaeology but mostly what 233 00:12:57,030 --> 00:12:55,330 the focus was was public archaeology or 234 00:12:59,610 --> 00:12:57,040 community archaeology and that's what 235 00:13:03,360 --> 00:12:59,620 you know I studied in graduate school 236 00:13:06,210 --> 00:13:03,370 was specifically public history 237 00:13:08,160 --> 00:13:06,220 so the difference with that is it's it's 238 00:13:10,020 --> 00:13:08,170 more of a roll up your sleeves and let's 239 00:13:12,900 --> 00:13:10,030 try to get the community involved let's 240 00:13:14,150 --> 00:13:12,910 try to bring archaeology in the study of 241 00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:14,160 history and 242 00:13:19,079 --> 00:13:17,290 disciplines out into the public as a 243 00:13:21,900 --> 00:13:19,089 form of education so it's not just 244 00:13:25,110 --> 00:13:21,910 trapped behind the scenes in a lab well 245 00:13:27,389 --> 00:13:25,120 I really felt this was important and 246 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:27,399 some of the work that I had participated 247 00:13:33,300 --> 00:13:30,970 in with this community college research 248 00:13:35,879 --> 00:13:33,310 organization it just it was so 249 00:13:39,319 --> 00:13:35,889 meaningful one summer in particular we 250 00:13:41,269 --> 00:13:39,329 worked with disadvantaged young people 251 00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:41,279 adolescents that you know came from 252 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:43,930 troubled backgrounds and something that 253 00:13:49,590 --> 00:13:47,170 we did was we we took them out and we 254 00:13:51,749 --> 00:13:49,600 started in in urban archaeology we went 255 00:13:53,990 --> 00:13:51,759 through and looked at you know this was 256 00:13:57,150 --> 00:13:54,000 in downtown Cleveland so we looked at 257 00:14:00,869 --> 00:13:57,160 different sites and we did research into 258 00:14:02,579 --> 00:14:00,879 you know maps and we located spots we 259 00:14:04,829 --> 00:14:02,589 surveyed sites we did ground-penetrating 260 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:04,839 radar and we got the kids actively 261 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:06,730 involved and not only the research but 262 00:14:14,129 --> 00:14:09,970 the actual excavation process and it was 263 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:14,139 in order to you know not just teach them 264 00:14:17,639 --> 00:14:15,970 hey here's archaeology or try to get 265 00:14:22,499 --> 00:14:17,649 them interested but just to have a more 266 00:14:25,170 --> 00:14:22,509 a tangible relationship with their 267 00:14:29,340 --> 00:14:25,180 community so that they felt more of a 268 00:14:31,049 --> 00:14:29,350 connection to their history and the 269 00:14:32,069 --> 00:14:31,059 history of their community so that they 270 00:14:35,249 --> 00:14:32,079 could take pride in that 271 00:14:37,559 --> 00:14:35,259 and so it was like yes we found some 272 00:14:40,139 --> 00:14:37,569 really interesting artifacts because 273 00:14:41,910 --> 00:14:40,149 even urban archeology and historical 274 00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:41,920 archaeology though it doesn't go back so 275 00:14:46,639 --> 00:14:44,410 so far in the past you can really find 276 00:14:50,509 --> 00:14:46,649 some interesting you know things but 277 00:14:53,340 --> 00:14:50,519 mostly what it was was rewarding to see 278 00:14:55,290 --> 00:14:53,350 don't work with the public the public 279 00:14:56,970 --> 00:14:55,300 instead of just here we're doing our 280 00:15:00,509 --> 00:14:56,980 research we're publishing our papers and 281 00:15:02,100 --> 00:15:00,519 story and so I really put my heart into 282 00:15:03,689 --> 00:15:02,110 that and you know I was a bit younger 283 00:15:07,460 --> 00:15:03,699 and more 284 00:15:11,490 --> 00:15:07,470 I don't know rose-colored glasses and so 285 00:15:13,799 --> 00:15:11,500 we eye being that it was a small 286 00:15:15,420 --> 00:15:13,809 organization I had to do a lot more than 287 00:15:18,329 --> 00:15:15,430 just some digging and lab work and 288 00:15:21,540 --> 00:15:18,339 instruction I had to also research you 289 00:15:24,449 --> 00:15:21,550 know grant opportunities and that type 290 00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:24,459 of thing so it occurred to me that we 291 00:15:27,180 --> 00:15:26,290 were taking a lot of money we were 292 00:15:31,350 --> 00:15:27,190 bringing in a whole 293 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:31,360 money and not a whole lot of work was 294 00:15:35,100 --> 00:15:33,010 being done and we did some major 295 00:15:37,140 --> 00:15:35,110 projects but for the for the amount of 296 00:15:40,230 --> 00:15:37,150 time we spent raising money it just 297 00:15:42,270 --> 00:15:40,240 seemed kind of you know unbalanced to me 298 00:15:44,250 --> 00:15:42,280 but I still just thought well you know 299 00:15:45,870 --> 00:15:44,260 we're working on some projects so you 300 00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:45,880 know we would meet some of the directors 301 00:15:51,090 --> 00:15:48,970 would meet and there would be lots of 302 00:15:54,060 --> 00:15:51,100 meetings and very nice restaurants 303 00:15:56,730 --> 00:15:54,070 drinks all around and good times to be 304 00:15:59,160 --> 00:15:56,740 had for all and you know as much fun as 305 00:16:00,210 --> 00:15:59,170 he could imagine some professors having 306 00:16:05,780 --> 00:16:00,220 I suppose so 307 00:16:08,330 --> 00:16:05,790 you know we we we would go to some nice 308 00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:08,340 banquets and dinners and fundraising 309 00:16:13,260 --> 00:16:10,330 opportunities here with you know the 310 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:13,270 era's chocolate fountains and big lavish 311 00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:15,250 displays of things and it just felt 312 00:16:19,530 --> 00:16:17,890 really I don't know it just I I 313 00:16:21,830 --> 00:16:19,540 understand fundraising I've worked with 314 00:16:24,780 --> 00:16:21,840 a lot of nonprofits main stream 315 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:24,790 nonprofits big big ones like the Cancer 316 00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:27,130 Society and that I volunteered on their 317 00:16:31,410 --> 00:16:29,050 boards and so I'm familiar with 318 00:16:33,660 --> 00:16:31,420 fundraising how important it is to put 319 00:16:37,130 --> 00:16:33,670 on these types of events but we're 320 00:16:41,180 --> 00:16:37,140 talking big events in a very small scale 321 00:16:43,740 --> 00:16:41,190 institution with very small goals and I 322 00:16:48,270 --> 00:16:43,750 it just wasn't sitting well with me well 323 00:16:50,190 --> 00:16:48,280 one you know one evening the director 324 00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:50,200 the lead anthropologist on the project 325 00:16:58,050 --> 00:16:55,050 he was just you know quite tipsy and I 326 00:16:59,820 --> 00:16:58,060 say we were talking about some things in 327 00:17:01,950 --> 00:16:59,830 the school the local school the 328 00:17:05,069 --> 00:17:01,960 Community College had just passed a levy 329 00:17:07,050 --> 00:17:05,079 because it's a state school so they just 330 00:17:09,179 --> 00:17:07,060 passed a levy for more funding so 331 00:17:12,750 --> 00:17:09,189 everyone was so happy they got money 332 00:17:13,980 --> 00:17:12,760 every money's flowing and I thought well 333 00:17:15,870 --> 00:17:13,990 here we get to move on some of these 334 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:15,880 projects that we had you know kind of in 335 00:17:21,390 --> 00:17:18,490 the works and so you know I bring this 336 00:17:23,250 --> 00:17:21,400 up and I had made the comment you know 337 00:17:27,420 --> 00:17:23,260 I'd like to give back to the community 338 00:17:31,860 --> 00:17:27,430 that caused some belly laughs and I was 339 00:17:35,580 --> 00:17:31,870 not prepared for that and he said he 340 00:17:38,669 --> 00:17:35,590 said specifically you know why would you 341 00:17:41,010 --> 00:17:38,679 do that are you really thinking we're 342 00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:41,020 trying to do something good 343 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:42,610 he just sort of questioned me on this 344 00:17:48,390 --> 00:17:45,490 and just he looked at me just blankly 345 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:48,400 and I I was confused because I knew he 346 00:17:53,670 --> 00:17:52,210 was a little bit you know tipsy but I 347 00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:53,680 thought surely you understand what I'm 348 00:17:56,550 --> 00:17:54,010 saying 349 00:17:58,680 --> 00:17:56,560 so I said no I I you know we're doing 350 00:18:00,360 --> 00:17:58,690 all these grants we're trying to do all 351 00:18:02,580 --> 00:18:00,370 this and he's like listen I'm gonna let 352 00:18:04,500 --> 00:18:02,590 you in on how this works because he sort 353 00:18:07,140 --> 00:18:04,510 of looked at me he was he was about to 354 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:07,150 retire from his tenured position he was 355 00:18:14,220 --> 00:18:10,650 going to stay on as a consultant to the 356 00:18:17,130 --> 00:18:14,230 research organization so he was trying 357 00:18:18,570 --> 00:18:17,140 to sort of advise me on some things and 358 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:18,580 help me out along the way which you know 359 00:18:22,980 --> 00:18:21,010 I was grateful for so he looked at this 360 00:18:26,850 --> 00:18:22,990 as an opportunity let's say a teachable 361 00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:26,860 moment so he said to me you know this is 362 00:18:31,590 --> 00:18:28,330 what we're trying to do we're trying to 363 00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:31,600 keep our lab open he's like you want the 364 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:33,490 lab open don't you and I was like well 365 00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:35,290 of course I want the lab open and he 366 00:18:39,660 --> 00:18:37,690 said well we want the lab open in that 367 00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:39,670 heat when he said lab he was meaning the 368 00:18:44,460 --> 00:18:42,970 the physical location of the lab not the 369 00:18:47,730 --> 00:18:44,470 work that was going on he's like well we 370 00:18:50,730 --> 00:18:47,740 want the lab open so we have someplace 371 00:18:53,670 --> 00:18:50,740 to hide from these students do you think 372 00:18:56,250 --> 00:18:53,680 we want to teach these people all day no 373 00:18:58,950 --> 00:18:56,260 we want to go and have someplace to be 374 00:19:01,770 --> 00:18:58,960 and I said okay you know laughs laughs 375 00:19:03,660 --> 00:19:01,780 and he said no what you'll get to learn 376 00:19:05,850 --> 00:19:03,670 is that what we're doing is trying to 377 00:19:08,730 --> 00:19:05,860 find money so that we have jobs you have 378 00:19:12,420 --> 00:19:08,740 to secure your own salaries which I was 379 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:12,430 aware of but what I saw before me was 380 00:19:18,180 --> 00:19:15,490 not this reasonable effort to secure a 381 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:18,190 reasonable salary and then do you know 382 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:20,770 reputable work and respectable things it 383 00:19:26,310 --> 00:19:23,650 was let's see how much more bloated we 384 00:19:28,890 --> 00:19:26,320 can make the administration and you know 385 00:19:30,660 --> 00:19:28,900 we'll do these projects on the side and 386 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:30,670 and I said well what about this project 387 00:19:34,260 --> 00:19:32,530 and what about this one and they said oh 388 00:19:37,110 --> 00:19:34,270 well we're not really doing those but we 389 00:19:38,700 --> 00:19:37,120 have to we have to meet on those and 390 00:19:42,930 --> 00:19:38,710 make reports about those in order to 391 00:19:45,210 --> 00:19:42,940 stay good with the you know grant money 392 00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:45,220 and you know we have to be deeds reports 393 00:19:49,350 --> 00:19:47,530 and everything and I was like so we 394 00:19:51,510 --> 00:19:49,360 never we're not gonna actually do these 395 00:19:53,820 --> 00:19:51,520 things and he's like not if I can help 396 00:19:54,570 --> 00:19:53,830 it haha that just was laughter all 397 00:19:58,529 --> 00:19:54,580 around and 398 00:20:00,120 --> 00:19:58,539 you know that wasn't they worked this is 399 00:20:01,649 --> 00:20:00,130 not an excuse but they weren't doing 400 00:20:05,610 --> 00:20:01,659 anything that would really affect 401 00:20:07,500 --> 00:20:05,620 anybody on a grand scale this was a this 402 00:20:08,850 --> 00:20:07,510 is a it's not actually a small community 403 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:08,860 college it's the largest community 404 00:20:13,529 --> 00:20:11,890 college system in Ohio so I mean any 405 00:20:15,149 --> 00:20:13,539 listener can kind of google that and 406 00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:15,159 find out which one I'm talking about but 407 00:20:24,509 --> 00:20:21,490 it's the it's the fact that that 408 00:20:26,340 --> 00:20:24,519 corruption was there that everybody was 409 00:20:28,590 --> 00:20:26,350 on board with it and that the whole 410 00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:28,600 project and it was a culture of 411 00:20:34,230 --> 00:20:31,090 corruption and here I was in the middle 412 00:20:35,940 --> 00:20:34,240 of this culture of corruption and I just 413 00:20:38,669 --> 00:20:35,950 didn't like it it just to say the least 414 00:20:40,710 --> 00:20:38,679 I felt like a hypocrite I felt like a 415 00:20:44,129 --> 00:20:40,720 hypocrite because in the at the same 416 00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:44,139 time in my personal research I was 417 00:20:51,779 --> 00:20:48,330 coming across evidence of corruption in 418 00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:51,789 research on such a large scale so here I 419 00:20:56,759 --> 00:20:54,250 was trying to sort of be a watchdog or 420 00:20:58,950 --> 00:20:56,769 an advocate for corruption on a larger 421 00:21:00,629 --> 00:20:58,960 scale but I was involved in working with 422 00:21:01,289 --> 00:21:00,639 an institution that was involved in 423 00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:01,299 corruption 424 00:21:06,570 --> 00:21:04,090 on a small scale so it run it didn't 425 00:21:07,950 --> 00:21:06,580 work so I look you know you're you were 426 00:21:11,580 --> 00:21:07,960 really passionate about the public 427 00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:11,590 education side and teaching people you 428 00:21:17,879 --> 00:21:15,610 know about these things and and yeah 429 00:21:21,659 --> 00:21:17,889 that wasn't really one of the goals that 430 00:21:23,669 --> 00:21:21,669 had no it was quite the opposite I was 431 00:21:26,009 --> 00:21:23,679 surprised to find that they were looking 432 00:21:29,360 --> 00:21:26,019 at the lab as an opportunity to 433 00:21:31,919 --> 00:21:29,370 literally hide from students which yeah 434 00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:31,929 yeah well you know I think there's a 435 00:21:38,820 --> 00:21:34,330 little bit of that in you anywhere you 436 00:21:42,180 --> 00:21:38,830 go in and I know that is also you know 437 00:21:46,409 --> 00:21:42,190 prevalent and other Sciences you know in 438 00:21:49,009 --> 00:21:46,419 in the field of academia so it's it's a 439 00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:49,019 little it's a little problematic because 440 00:21:56,149 --> 00:21:52,570 you know it can't it shouldn't just be 441 00:22:00,539 --> 00:21:56,159 about a job it really should be about 442 00:22:03,450 --> 00:22:00,549 passing on what we have learned to the 443 00:22:06,360 --> 00:22:03,460 next generation coming up and that's the 444 00:22:08,010 --> 00:22:06,370 students you know and and they really 445 00:22:11,390 --> 00:22:08,020 need to know I 446 00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:11,400 think the bigger picture and too often I 447 00:22:21,900 --> 00:22:15,250 think we give them a very narrow window 448 00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:21,910 of ideas and we don't let them think we 449 00:22:26,970 --> 00:22:24,010 tell them how to think we don't teach 450 00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:26,980 them how to think and I think there's a 451 00:22:33,060 --> 00:22:30,610 big issue with that but we know when 452 00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:33,070 that when we're when we're we're talking 453 00:22:38,940 --> 00:22:36,250 about archaeology obviously you know 454 00:22:41,070 --> 00:22:38,950 this is a passion you became a little 455 00:22:44,490 --> 00:22:41,080 disillusioned with with this you know 456 00:22:47,940 --> 00:22:44,500 and and so you know that led you to kind 457 00:22:51,030 --> 00:22:47,950 of do some you know some some other 458 00:22:54,690 --> 00:22:51,040 things as far as a career path but what 459 00:22:58,070 --> 00:22:54,700 was what was a big what was a big thing 460 00:23:01,230 --> 00:22:58,080 the first big thing that that kind of 461 00:23:03,750 --> 00:23:01,240 kind of got your attention and said wait 462 00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:03,760 a minute this isn't what I was taught in 463 00:23:10,740 --> 00:23:07,450 school something something is is odd 464 00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:10,750 about this and I can't really put my 465 00:23:15,120 --> 00:23:13,210 finger on it but but there's something 466 00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:15,130 here to this and why haven't I ever 467 00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:17,650 heard about this before what was that 468 00:23:21,810 --> 00:23:19,810 one artifact or that one site or 469 00:23:23,730 --> 00:23:21,820 whatever it was what was that one thing 470 00:23:25,260 --> 00:23:23,740 for you that really got your attention 471 00:23:27,690 --> 00:23:25,270 and and made you start thinking about 472 00:23:29,250 --> 00:23:27,700 the bigger picture in archaeology you 473 00:23:30,870 --> 00:23:29,260 know that's that's a great question 474 00:23:32,220 --> 00:23:30,880 thank you for that one that's that's one 475 00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:32,230 of the best questions I think I've been 476 00:23:38,100 --> 00:23:35,290 asked because this is there is sort of a 477 00:23:40,230 --> 00:23:38,110 an aha moment where you're just like you 478 00:23:42,750 --> 00:23:40,240 know something's not right here so yes 479 00:23:45,420 --> 00:23:42,760 it goes beyond things like my personal 480 00:23:47,100 --> 00:23:45,430 beef with you know individuals over you 481 00:23:49,410 --> 00:23:47,110 know what I deemed to be a corrupted 482 00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:49,420 institution or or what have you in terms 483 00:23:55,770 --> 00:23:53,530 of the research aspect there is a 484 00:23:58,830 --> 00:23:55,780 difference between what you are taught 485 00:24:00,780 --> 00:23:58,840 in primary school and what you are 486 00:24:03,150 --> 00:24:00,790 taught in college and then what you can 487 00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:03,160 later find out so we're talking you know 488 00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:08,410 multiple sources with different inputs 489 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:11,770 it's it's astonishing I found this to be 490 00:24:17,430 --> 00:24:15,730 a wake-up call for not just me but a lot 491 00:24:20,460 --> 00:24:17,440 of just incoming freshmen in college 492 00:24:21,870 --> 00:24:20,470 when you're taught different things that 493 00:24:24,180 --> 00:24:21,880 just they didn't 494 00:24:26,010 --> 00:24:24,190 didn't go right like let me give you an 495 00:24:29,130 --> 00:24:26,020 example of this particular instance 496 00:24:31,350 --> 00:24:29,140 things like Columbus you know your kid 497 00:24:33,210 --> 00:24:31,360 in 1492 Columbus sailed the ocean blue 498 00:24:35,630 --> 00:24:33,220 and he's a hero hurray we have a day for 499 00:24:37,740 --> 00:24:35,640 him right he discovered America right 500 00:24:40,110 --> 00:24:37,750 absolutely not this is the silliest 501 00:24:41,490 --> 00:24:40,120 thing and he get into college and then 502 00:24:43,740 --> 00:24:41,500 you learn the real truth about who 503 00:24:46,230 --> 00:24:43,750 Christopher Columbus was where he was 504 00:24:49,050 --> 00:24:46,240 from and just things like that so it 505 00:24:51,660 --> 00:24:49,060 isn't even so much as this this hidden 506 00:24:54,090 --> 00:24:51,670 knowledge that some people you know have 507 00:24:56,970 --> 00:24:54,100 stumbled upon it's its knowledge that's 508 00:24:59,610 --> 00:24:56,980 hidden from our general public schools 509 00:25:02,400 --> 00:24:59,620 or primary schools or even you know some 510 00:25:06,030 --> 00:25:02,410 private schools it's you're taught this 511 00:25:08,490 --> 00:25:06,040 historic narrative when you're young in 512 00:25:11,310 --> 00:25:08,500 your formative years and if you are 513 00:25:13,170 --> 00:25:11,320 lucky enough to get to college your mind 514 00:25:14,970 --> 00:25:13,180 is blown because there will be a lot of 515 00:25:16,950 --> 00:25:14,980 times where you start learning that they 516 00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:16,960 this now forget all that let's get into 517 00:25:21,630 --> 00:25:19,330 the real the real information and that's 518 00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:21,640 still not all the real information but 519 00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:23,530 it is a world away from what you're 520 00:25:29,310 --> 00:25:26,290 taught in school and when you're young 521 00:25:31,470 --> 00:25:29,320 you listen to the teachers especially in 522 00:25:34,170 --> 00:25:31,480 history and those types of subjects it's 523 00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:34,180 all rote memorization you have to just 524 00:25:38,340 --> 00:25:36,610 learn the dates of this and the names of 525 00:25:41,210 --> 00:25:38,350 that and that's pretty much it you're 526 00:25:45,990 --> 00:25:41,220 not engaged in the process history is 527 00:25:50,010 --> 00:25:46,000 not a study of just pre-existing facts 528 00:25:53,630 --> 00:25:50,020 to memorize there are debates currently 529 00:25:56,850 --> 00:25:53,640 going on in mainline historical research 530 00:26:00,330 --> 00:25:56,860 over things that are taught now in 531 00:26:03,390 --> 00:26:00,340 school as fact so what we don't learn is 532 00:26:07,230 --> 00:26:03,400 that history and the study of the past 533 00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:07,240 is an ever changing topic it's fluid and 534 00:26:12,810 --> 00:26:10,690 it also has to do with who is the writer 535 00:26:17,610 --> 00:26:12,820 of that history I wouldn't want to run 536 00:26:20,970 --> 00:26:17,620 anybody to to research look up 537 00:26:23,340 --> 00:26:20,980 historiography it sounds like a $5 word 538 00:26:25,350 --> 00:26:23,350 but it's an important word in the 539 00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:25,360 academic study of the past it's not 540 00:26:31,470 --> 00:26:28,810 history it's the history of history who 541 00:26:34,500 --> 00:26:31,480 makes history it sounds a little bit you 542 00:26:35,670 --> 00:26:34,510 know meta but it is in fact an important 543 00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:35,680 thing to consider that they 544 00:26:39,540 --> 00:26:37,330 don't talk about when you're in your 545 00:26:41,490 --> 00:26:39,550 formative years that's not unless you 546 00:26:43,620 --> 00:26:41,500 get into the higher disciplines and they 547 00:26:45,930 --> 00:26:43,630 start saying alright let's really talk 548 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:45,940 about who are the history writers you 549 00:26:50,430 --> 00:26:48,970 know because again might one of my 550 00:26:52,650 --> 00:26:50,440 favorite quotes I think I have on my 551 00:26:55,530 --> 00:26:52,660 website it's you know Napoleon it's 552 00:26:58,890 --> 00:26:55,540 usually attributed to him it's what is 553 00:26:59,820 --> 00:26:58,900 history but a fable agreed upon that's 554 00:27:02,760 --> 00:26:59,830 the truth 555 00:27:06,780 --> 00:27:02,770 we don't have concrete knowledge of our 556 00:27:09,930 --> 00:27:06,790 past as archaeologists as historians we 557 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:09,940 have snippets that we have to fill in 558 00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:12,010 the blanks to the best of our ability 559 00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:14,650 using whatever evidence we have and then 560 00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:17,290 that's gonna be in a cloud of bias to 561 00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:20,170 whomever it was that is deciphering this 562 00:27:24,690 --> 00:27:21,970 information which is why it's important 563 00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:24,700 to have peer review and empirical 564 00:27:29,580 --> 00:27:26,890 research and a dialectic so that we can 565 00:27:33,030 --> 00:27:29,590 kind of try our best to weed out our own 566 00:27:35,790 --> 00:27:33,040 personal biases and this is a process 567 00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:35,800 this is the process that goes on but 568 00:27:39,300 --> 00:27:38,170 when you are say in fifth grade and 569 00:27:40,710 --> 00:27:39,310 you're just taught well this is what 570 00:27:42,540 --> 00:27:40,720 happened on this date that's what 571 00:27:44,790 --> 00:27:42,550 happened on that date case closed 572 00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:44,800 go memorize this and never question it 573 00:27:51,990 --> 00:27:48,250 again that's wrong and so when I got to 574 00:27:53,430 --> 00:27:52,000 be older this is a very small thing but 575 00:27:55,470 --> 00:27:53,440 it was one of those things that just 576 00:27:59,400 --> 00:27:55,480 kind of left me with my mouth hanging 577 00:28:01,950 --> 00:27:59,410 open for a while I was in a class and 578 00:28:05,490 --> 00:28:01,960 the teeth the professor had mentioned 579 00:28:08,370 --> 00:28:05,500 how you know that we were talking about 580 00:28:10,380 --> 00:28:08,380 Roman concrete and how important and 581 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:10,390 different that was and how the recipe 582 00:28:16,050 --> 00:28:12,970 for it had actually been lost to history 583 00:28:19,950 --> 00:28:16,060 and forever people have tried to come up 584 00:28:22,620 --> 00:28:19,960 with what what is Roman concrete why is 585 00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:22,630 it that our concrete just crumbles after 586 00:28:27,060 --> 00:28:24,730 so long our infrastructures crumbling 587 00:28:29,910 --> 00:28:27,070 everything's falling apart well why is 588 00:28:32,100 --> 00:28:29,920 it that you know Roman roads are still 589 00:28:34,770 --> 00:28:32,110 used things that the Romans made with 590 00:28:36,180 --> 00:28:34,780 their concrete are they sit in water 591 00:28:37,950 --> 00:28:36,190 they're waterlogged yet they're just 592 00:28:39,390 --> 00:28:37,960 they're better than what we could make 593 00:28:42,150 --> 00:28:39,400 now why is that 594 00:28:44,190 --> 00:28:42,160 and what's the recipe and why don't we 595 00:28:47,270 --> 00:28:44,200 still know it and and it just seems so 596 00:28:49,450 --> 00:28:47,280 small there have been efforts to 597 00:28:51,970 --> 00:28:49,460 recreate Roman concrete 598 00:28:53,769 --> 00:28:51,980 I've gotten close actually more recently 599 00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:53,779 they they they feel they pretty much 600 00:28:58,360 --> 00:28:56,570 have it but I heard that yeah but at the 601 00:29:00,370 --> 00:28:58,370 time that you know I was learning this 602 00:29:01,990 --> 00:29:00,380 this was before they really kind of you 603 00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:02,000 know nailed it but that's what was 604 00:29:06,490 --> 00:29:04,370 interesting to me is you know there are 605 00:29:07,930 --> 00:29:06,500 still mysteries there are still things 606 00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:07,940 and we have a lot to learn from the 607 00:29:12,220 --> 00:29:09,890 Ancients things that are what we would 608 00:29:15,100 --> 00:29:12,230 deem simple and something like the 609 00:29:17,649 --> 00:29:15,110 Antikythera mechanism you know the 610 00:29:21,070 --> 00:29:17,659 world's first or oldest computer that we 611 00:29:24,070 --> 00:29:21,080 know of those types of interesting 612 00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:24,080 objects I mean that that tells me that 613 00:29:30,580 --> 00:29:26,770 there was more to the past more to the 614 00:29:32,409 --> 00:29:30,590 ancients than we you know then we give 615 00:29:36,460 --> 00:29:32,419 them credit so I think the whole roaming 616 00:29:39,130 --> 00:29:36,470 concrete thing was the first time that I 617 00:29:41,529 --> 00:29:39,140 was ever taught hey you know it's not 618 00:29:44,769 --> 00:29:41,539 that there are things we still have yet 619 00:29:46,570 --> 00:29:44,779 to know and so yeah I just thought that 620 00:29:49,289 --> 00:29:46,580 was very interesting and there's a lot 621 00:29:51,310 --> 00:29:49,299 that we need to know and still cover 622 00:29:53,610 --> 00:29:51,320 Heather we're going to be right back 623 00:29:56,409 --> 00:29:53,620 here on the program after a short break 624 00:29:58,269 --> 00:29:56,419 with dr. heather Lynn the Cimmerian 625 00:30:01,389 --> 00:29:58,279 controversy right here on epic voyages 626 00:30:03,490 --> 00:30:01,399 and welcome back to epic voyages radio I 627 00:30:05,590 --> 00:30:03,500 am average with our special guest 628 00:30:10,029 --> 00:30:05,600 tonight dr. heather Lynn the Cimmerian 629 00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:10,039 controversy a special report if you're 630 00:30:18,010 --> 00:30:13,490 interested go to the live chat room at 631 00:30:21,580 --> 00:30:18,020 inception radio network calm hit the the 632 00:30:23,740 --> 00:30:21,590 chat button there on the icon on the 633 00:30:28,269 --> 00:30:23,750 website and then that'll take you right 634 00:30:30,250 --> 00:30:28,279 into the chat room you can interact with 635 00:30:32,919 --> 00:30:30,260 other listeners type your questions 636 00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:32,929 better yet tell in with your question 637 00:30:39,010 --> 00:30:35,330 for dr. heather Lynn one triple eight 638 00:30:41,019 --> 00:30:39,020 nine one nine two three five five one 639 00:30:45,010 --> 00:30:41,029 triple eight nine one nine two three 640 00:30:51,039 --> 00:30:45,020 five five and we'll take your call 641 00:30:54,100 --> 00:30:51,049 comments on the air for dr. Lynn dr. 642 00:30:57,510 --> 00:30:54,110 lane we were talking about you know how 643 00:31:00,190 --> 00:30:57,520 he got involved in archaeology and then 644 00:31:03,190 --> 00:31:00,200 he wrote a book called the Sumerian 645 00:31:06,490 --> 00:31:03,200 controversy a special report tell us 646 00:31:13,629 --> 00:31:06,500 a little bit about your book and why is 647 00:31:18,279 --> 00:31:13,639 it a controversy well in March of last 648 00:31:21,070 --> 00:31:18,289 year I checked my facebook I have a lot 649 00:31:23,860 --> 00:31:21,080 of followers and I post a lot of general 650 00:31:26,110 --> 00:31:23,870 news about archaeology and this that and 651 00:31:27,730 --> 00:31:26,120 I you know I get a lot of messages and 652 00:31:33,009 --> 00:31:27,740 so I was looking through my messages and 653 00:31:36,490 --> 00:31:33,019 I got one from somebody who seemed 654 00:31:37,210 --> 00:31:36,500 really desperate they were asking for 655 00:31:38,740 --> 00:31:37,220 help 656 00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:38,750 they said they had knowledge of 657 00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:40,970 artifacts that had been found at a site 658 00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:43,970 called tel Khyber and Iraq 659 00:31:49,450 --> 00:31:46,490 they said they had been taking bags of 660 00:31:51,549 --> 00:31:49,460 artifacts away and in all caps they were 661 00:31:54,490 --> 00:31:51,559 saying this is our heritage please help 662 00:31:56,409 --> 00:31:54,500 you what can we do and and they were 663 00:31:59,820 --> 00:31:56,419 saying something about prophet it we got 664 00:32:04,480 --> 00:31:59,830 very poetic and and a little disjointed 665 00:32:06,250 --> 00:32:04,490 and I thought wow this is interesting I 666 00:32:08,980 --> 00:32:06,260 tend to get a lot of interesting 667 00:32:12,159 --> 00:32:08,990 messages but this one I guess the sense 668 00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:12,169 of urgency had me intrigued and and I 669 00:32:18,070 --> 00:32:16,130 felt kind of bad so I tried to click on 670 00:32:19,930 --> 00:32:18,080 his profile and say you know can I have 671 00:32:22,389 --> 00:32:19,940 some more information but his profile 672 00:32:24,129 --> 00:32:22,399 was private and so I thought well I 673 00:32:26,049 --> 00:32:24,139 don't know it just seemed kind of like a 674 00:32:29,710 --> 00:32:26,059 loss I tried to Google what he was 675 00:32:31,870 --> 00:32:29,720 talking about but I think maybe he 676 00:32:34,090 --> 00:32:31,880 didn't spell it right something so I 677 00:32:35,830 --> 00:32:34,100 didn't know what to do is something 678 00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:35,840 stuck with me about it though it just 679 00:32:40,690 --> 00:32:37,850 seemed really intriguing and I couldn't 680 00:32:43,090 --> 00:32:40,700 stop thinking about it so you know I I 681 00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:43,100 did research and still couldn't find 682 00:32:50,110 --> 00:32:45,970 anything and it was interesting because 683 00:32:54,039 --> 00:32:50,120 probably I don't know a couple days 684 00:32:56,740 --> 00:32:54,049 afterwards I got a Google Alert on my 685 00:32:58,529 --> 00:32:56,750 phone telling me about a news release 686 00:33:01,629 --> 00:32:58,539 from the Christian Science Monitor 687 00:33:03,909 --> 00:33:01,639 talking about the site tell Kyra that 688 00:33:06,850 --> 00:33:03,919 yeah it had been spelled differently in 689 00:33:09,190 --> 00:33:06,860 the message so I thought oh this was 690 00:33:11,139 --> 00:33:09,200 what he was talking about so you know I 691 00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:11,149 looked at the story from the Christian 692 00:33:15,490 --> 00:33:13,850 Science Monitor and it seemed pretty 693 00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:15,500 straightforward I didn't see any reason 694 00:33:19,450 --> 00:33:16,370 that it and 695 00:33:20,919 --> 00:33:19,460 would cause anyone to contact me and I 696 00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:20,929 don't know why they would really contact 697 00:33:24,899 --> 00:33:22,730 me because it's not like I could really 698 00:33:27,070 --> 00:33:24,909 go there and do anything about it I 699 00:33:30,909 --> 00:33:27,080 unless I was just his only point of 700 00:33:32,500 --> 00:33:30,919 contact maybe so you know I was sort of 701 00:33:36,630 --> 00:33:32,510 at a loss oh I'm looking at this news 702 00:33:40,539 --> 00:33:36,640 article and it wasn't extraordinarily 703 00:33:42,130 --> 00:33:40,549 important fine so I can understand why 704 00:33:47,470 --> 00:33:42,140 there was a lot of excitement the 705 00:33:49,899 --> 00:33:47,480 discovery was near her and this is a 706 00:33:52,930 --> 00:33:49,909 really big deal because it was the first 707 00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:52,940 foreign excavation at the site and since 708 00:33:56,740 --> 00:33:54,010 the 1930s 709 00:34:00,430 --> 00:33:56,750 so the and that's referring to the last 710 00:34:02,889 --> 00:34:00,440 major excavation which was at her itself 711 00:34:04,750 --> 00:34:02,899 so this was quite a big deal that 712 00:34:08,649 --> 00:34:04,760 anybody was even there 713 00:34:10,329 --> 00:34:08,659 excavating to begin with and it was 714 00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:10,339 there were no Americans involved it was 715 00:34:15,190 --> 00:34:12,770 a team of British archaeologists and 716 00:34:18,730 --> 00:34:15,200 what year was this this was in this was 717 00:34:21,270 --> 00:34:18,740 last year and in 2013 it sort of went 718 00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:21,280 under the radar it was just you know 719 00:34:26,859 --> 00:34:23,690 only where the press release went out 720 00:34:31,270 --> 00:34:26,869 and it was picked up by a couple of new 721 00:34:33,399 --> 00:34:31,280 sources so but this was big news as so I 722 00:34:36,070 --> 00:34:33,409 thought because again that there had 723 00:34:39,369 --> 00:34:36,080 been no other excavation in and around 724 00:34:42,430 --> 00:34:39,379 that area since the 1930s since Sir 725 00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:42,440 Charles Leonard Woolley had been there 726 00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:44,450 you know discovering most of what we 727 00:34:54,399 --> 00:34:50,450 know of no yes Olli so you know it after 728 00:34:57,370 --> 00:34:54,409 the 1950's revolution it it put it off 729 00:34:59,410 --> 00:34:57,380 limits to foreign archaeologists for 60 730 00:35:01,839 --> 00:34:59,420 years so every day was huge it was a 731 00:35:05,050 --> 00:35:01,849 huge news story for archaeology and 732 00:35:07,180 --> 00:35:05,060 science so you know and and you know you 733 00:35:10,270 --> 00:35:07,190 say Oh wooly he was an interesting 734 00:35:12,849 --> 00:35:10,280 character you know he by today's 735 00:35:15,190 --> 00:35:12,859 standards he would have been considered 736 00:35:17,490 --> 00:35:15,200 an amateur and and not even been 737 00:35:22,180 --> 00:35:17,500 permitted to research let alone excavate 738 00:35:25,839 --> 00:35:22,190 but he found treasures that rivaled King 739 00:35:28,750 --> 00:35:25,849 Tut's tomb I mean he he really made huge 740 00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:28,760 discoveries and was very important but 741 00:35:34,089 --> 00:35:30,170 again it's just it's 742 00:35:35,829 --> 00:35:34,099 funny because so much is built on you 743 00:35:37,299 --> 00:35:35,839 know credentials and credibility yet he 744 00:35:39,309 --> 00:35:37,309 really didn't have the credentials he 745 00:35:41,620 --> 00:35:39,319 was what back then they kind of looked 746 00:35:44,140 --> 00:35:41,630 at as an antiquarian somebody he just 747 00:35:47,260 --> 00:35:44,150 had a an interest in this kind of thing 748 00:35:49,900 --> 00:35:47,270 so he he did a lot to you know really 749 00:35:52,870 --> 00:35:49,910 bring the idea of Sumerians into our you 750 00:35:56,020 --> 00:35:52,880 know mindset and it was really a field 751 00:35:59,980 --> 00:35:56,030 even back then it was oh yeah 752 00:36:01,990 --> 00:35:59,990 archaeology is such a new field I don't 753 00:36:04,420 --> 00:36:02,000 think people realize how new of a 754 00:36:07,089 --> 00:36:04,430 discipline it is it I mean people looked 755 00:36:10,030 --> 00:36:07,099 in the past for you know they've looked 756 00:36:12,910 --> 00:36:10,040 towards artifacts and things always but 757 00:36:15,130 --> 00:36:12,920 it was sort of just a uh a hobby or an 758 00:36:17,170 --> 00:36:15,140 interest it was never fully looked at as 759 00:36:18,940 --> 00:36:17,180 a discipline until you know fairly 760 00:36:21,910 --> 00:36:18,950 recently and I would argue that being 761 00:36:23,740 --> 00:36:21,920 that we're in the in that in the 762 00:36:25,690 --> 00:36:23,750 beginning stages of data it's not fully 763 00:36:31,569 --> 00:36:25,700 I don't I don't believe that it's still 764 00:36:33,549 --> 00:36:31,579 fully you know formed as a discipline I 765 00:36:35,620 --> 00:36:33,559 think there's still a lot getting put 766 00:36:38,650 --> 00:36:35,630 together there's a lot of differences 767 00:36:40,510 --> 00:36:38,660 between American archaeology and British 768 00:36:42,609 --> 00:36:40,520 archaeology and how we structure it and 769 00:36:45,309 --> 00:36:42,619 what we do and our methods and so I 770 00:36:49,180 --> 00:36:45,319 think it's still in its infancy really 771 00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:49,190 but so but this wow this was back when 772 00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:52,010 it was hardly a you know a science at 773 00:36:58,299 --> 00:36:54,890 all so it was he found a lot he did a 774 00:37:00,809 --> 00:36:58,309 lot but nobody's been back since so it 775 00:37:05,770 --> 00:37:00,819 was a big news that they went back there 776 00:37:09,180 --> 00:37:05,780 you know just just last year so you know 777 00:37:13,059 --> 00:37:09,190 here here goes this this discovery they 778 00:37:16,599 --> 00:37:13,069 it was mirror and that that's you know 779 00:37:19,599 --> 00:37:16,609 something that was really interesting 780 00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:19,609 because it was actually they think 781 00:37:24,220 --> 00:37:21,530 bigger and they've not they've not 782 00:37:26,770 --> 00:37:24,230 unearthed every bit of it they found it 783 00:37:28,510 --> 00:37:26,780 first through satellite imaging it was 784 00:37:31,329 --> 00:37:28,520 what did they what are they finding 785 00:37:36,910 --> 00:37:31,339 there that was you know that was that 786 00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:36,920 was important a massive site it is a 787 00:37:44,050 --> 00:37:42,770 massive what they think is a temple they 788 00:37:48,610 --> 00:37:44,060 but it's so my 789 00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:48,620 so in the what we now know because they 790 00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:49,970 have gone back and that's something I 791 00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:51,770 could talk about later but they now know 792 00:37:58,350 --> 00:37:55,130 that it not only is a huge in size but 793 00:38:02,110 --> 00:37:58,360 it's unlike any known architecture of 794 00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:02,120 that time so it is a very important 795 00:38:10,450 --> 00:38:06,770 interesting thing it is located over ten 796 00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:10,460 miles from a it's it's so it's a decent 797 00:38:16,630 --> 00:38:13,610 distance but it it's you know not it's 798 00:38:19,030 --> 00:38:16,640 not really that far but it is far enough 799 00:38:21,820 --> 00:38:19,040 away that it stands on its own so it's 800 00:38:24,100 --> 00:38:21,830 not necessarily even associated with her 801 00:38:28,110 --> 00:38:24,110 to that extent so it's not kind of a but 802 00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:28,120 it goes back to the time period of early 803 00:38:34,330 --> 00:38:30,650 Mesopotamia absolutely it's at least 804 00:38:37,660 --> 00:38:34,340 four thousand years old so it at the 805 00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:37,670 least and so again this is a this was a 806 00:38:44,500 --> 00:38:41,210 joint excavation between the British and 807 00:38:47,950 --> 00:38:44,510 they they actually got four Iraqis to 808 00:38:52,270 --> 00:38:47,960 join them so they worked there three 809 00:38:54,730 --> 00:38:52,280 weeks and the building though was it was 810 00:38:56,350 --> 00:38:54,740 at least 250 square feet from what they 811 00:38:57,220 --> 00:38:56,360 could tell based on just the satellite 812 00:39:00,940 --> 00:38:57,230 alone 813 00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:00,950 the rooms excavated along the eastern 814 00:39:07,930 --> 00:39:03,650 side of the building have solid 815 00:39:10,720 --> 00:39:07,940 pavements of just mud bricks and it 816 00:39:13,090 --> 00:39:10,730 they're nine feet thick so it's 817 00:39:17,070 --> 00:39:13,100 definitely it was definitely fortified 818 00:39:20,410 --> 00:39:17,080 it was an important structure it has 819 00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:20,420 beautifully decorated floors that lead 820 00:39:28,150 --> 00:39:22,610 the researchers to believe the building 821 00:39:32,230 --> 00:39:28,160 was maybe even sacred and so with is 822 00:39:34,300 --> 00:39:32,240 such a large building what they've what 823 00:39:37,270 --> 00:39:34,310 they're sort of going with right now is 824 00:39:41,830 --> 00:39:37,280 that it was an administrative center so 825 00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:41,840 in in the middle of the complex is like 826 00:39:49,090 --> 00:39:46,010 a big room that is it's sort of 827 00:39:52,230 --> 00:39:49,100 encircles a grand courtyard I mean and 828 00:39:56,020 --> 00:39:52,240 it's extremely unusual to find large 829 00:39:57,970 --> 00:39:56,030 complexes like this this old on this 830 00:40:01,330 --> 00:39:57,980 scale so this is 831 00:40:03,340 --> 00:40:01,340 this is really big so what they did what 832 00:40:05,890 --> 00:40:03,350 they tried to get some soil samples to 833 00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:05,900 determine information about the the 834 00:40:10,290 --> 00:40:08,210 climate at the time and agriculture and 835 00:40:13,090 --> 00:40:10,300 maybe if they could find any other 836 00:40:16,810 --> 00:40:13,100 information on what this building was 837 00:40:19,150 --> 00:40:16,820 used for but so far there the main facts 838 00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:19,160 is that it dates back at least 4000 839 00:40:24,970 --> 00:40:22,130 years and it is most likely an 840 00:40:27,790 --> 00:40:24,980 administrative center so that could mean 841 00:40:30,250 --> 00:40:27,800 that it has a Hall of Records or some 842 00:40:33,490 --> 00:40:30,260 kind of you know important information 843 00:40:35,500 --> 00:40:33,500 there and you know it in ancient Sumer 844 00:40:38,140 --> 00:40:35,510 the temples were like medieval 845 00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:38,150 monasteries in Europe and that they were 846 00:40:42,490 --> 00:40:39,530 the center of Education 847 00:40:46,060 --> 00:40:42,500 you know they attach to almost all of 848 00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:46,070 them were schools where people could be 849 00:40:51,910 --> 00:40:48,650 trained usually adolescents because it 850 00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:51,920 was such a you know long committed task 851 00:40:58,330 --> 00:40:54,290 but where they could be trained to 852 00:41:00,849 --> 00:40:58,340 become scribes there's also there was 853 00:41:03,370 --> 00:41:00,859 evidence of this that what was the way 854 00:41:05,770 --> 00:41:03,380 they referred to as a school tablet 855 00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:05,780 where they've actually found cuneiform 856 00:41:10,780 --> 00:41:09,050 lessons and homework and different 857 00:41:13,180 --> 00:41:10,790 things so thank goodness for the school 858 00:41:15,700 --> 00:41:13,190 tablets because that actually helped the 859 00:41:19,030 --> 00:41:15,710 scholars later pieced together what we 860 00:41:22,210 --> 00:41:19,040 know of Sumerian grammar but in addition 861 00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:22,220 to grammar they found that the students 862 00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:24,890 learn math they learn multiplication 863 00:41:31,570 --> 00:41:28,130 tables and division square roots cube 864 00:41:34,810 --> 00:41:31,580 roots and even pretty complex geometry 865 00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:34,820 and they found all that on tablets and 866 00:41:43,870 --> 00:41:40,490 so these go ahead sorry I just this is 867 00:41:46,780 --> 00:41:43,880 this is amazing Heather but why is it 868 00:41:50,609 --> 00:41:46,790 controversial in the fact that you know 869 00:41:53,620 --> 00:41:50,619 in in in light of all that we know about 870 00:41:55,270 --> 00:41:53,630 ancient Mesopotamia was there anything 871 00:41:58,599 --> 00:41:55,280 in particular that made a controversial 872 00:42:02,109 --> 00:41:58,609 or just the fact that it was an unknown 873 00:42:05,260 --> 00:42:02,119 and here there's this huge complex that 874 00:42:07,300 --> 00:42:05,270 was discovered initially I wouldn't find 875 00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:07,310 any controversy in that I just thought 876 00:42:11,170 --> 00:42:08,930 it was an interesting story that's why I 877 00:42:11,470 --> 00:42:11,180 sort of dismissed then somebody emailing 878 00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:11,480 me 879 00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:15,890 going on here and yes so you know here 880 00:42:20,410 --> 00:42:18,650 we have this this you know story it's a 881 00:42:24,340 --> 00:42:20,420 legitimate find there just doesn't seem 882 00:42:28,240 --> 00:42:24,350 to be anything you know - you know 883 00:42:30,340 --> 00:42:28,250 controversial in my opinion but I wanted 884 00:42:35,250 --> 00:42:30,350 to learn more because this was very 885 00:42:37,810 --> 00:42:35,260 interesting to me and so I contacted the 886 00:42:40,420 --> 00:42:37,820 college that was you know in charge of 887 00:42:42,670 --> 00:42:40,430 this it I contacted the professor who is 888 00:42:45,430 --> 00:42:42,680 interred the British professor that was 889 00:42:47,260 --> 00:42:45,440 in charge of this just so that I could 890 00:42:50,710 --> 00:42:47,270 kind of get a an official statement 891 00:42:53,590 --> 00:42:50,720 because when I posted this on my 892 00:42:55,750 --> 00:42:53,600 Facebook later I said hey you know check 893 00:42:57,400 --> 00:42:55,760 this out this is really interesting look 894 00:42:59,380 --> 00:42:57,410 at this news story thinking it was like 895 00:43:00,070 --> 00:42:59,390 any other interesting archaeological 896 00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:00,080 news story 897 00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:02,930 well I found that I got a lot of 898 00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:06,170 harassment for it on not just my 899 00:43:11,260 --> 00:43:09,770 facebook but my blog for people who 900 00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:11,270 weren't my Facebook friends or followers 901 00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:13,090 they're just people that I didn't know 902 00:43:18,150 --> 00:43:16,130 and I thought that's really strange 903 00:43:20,740 --> 00:43:18,160 somebody actually accused me of 904 00:43:23,650 --> 00:43:20,750 promoting a hoax like this was some hoax 905 00:43:25,990 --> 00:43:23,660 which I thought was strange because it's 906 00:43:28,030 --> 00:43:26,000 it was all over the news it was on you 907 00:43:30,340 --> 00:43:28,040 know live science and just a local 908 00:43:32,490 --> 00:43:30,350 regional sites everything so from the 909 00:43:34,780 --> 00:43:32,500 beginning there was this weird air of 910 00:43:37,510 --> 00:43:34,790 strangeness about it but I didn't really 911 00:43:40,390 --> 00:43:37,520 see that there was anything that strange 912 00:43:44,290 --> 00:43:40,400 so you know I contact the University of 913 00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:44,300 Manchester and I spoke back and forth 914 00:43:49,630 --> 00:43:46,130 with some administrators they're trying 915 00:43:51,190 --> 00:43:49,640 to arrange a meeting so that I could you 916 00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:51,200 know get to the bottom of this just to 917 00:43:55,750 --> 00:43:52,610 get more details because I wanted to 918 00:43:58,960 --> 00:43:55,760 know more about what they found and they 919 00:44:02,080 --> 00:43:58,970 gave me the information of the lead 920 00:44:03,910 --> 00:44:02,090 professor and they said he's you know 921 00:44:05,950 --> 00:44:03,920 more than happy to speak with you he'd 922 00:44:08,740 --> 00:44:05,960 like you to email a list of your 923 00:44:13,270 --> 00:44:08,750 questions and so you know I I went ahead 924 00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:13,280 and then did that and I put that out on 925 00:44:17,410 --> 00:44:15,290 my facebook as well because again my 926 00:44:19,720 --> 00:44:17,420 passion and background and focus has 927 00:44:23,710 --> 00:44:19,730 been on public archaeology public 928 00:44:25,270 --> 00:44:23,720 history I want the public to be actively 929 00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:25,280 involved and included 930 00:44:31,030 --> 00:44:28,850 and on this research so I put it on my 931 00:44:33,310 --> 00:44:31,040 facebook hey I you know the University 932 00:44:34,930 --> 00:44:33,320 of Manchester is you know willing to 933 00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:34,940 take some questions anybody have any 934 00:44:40,420 --> 00:44:37,010 questions well it just so happens that 935 00:44:43,300 --> 00:44:40,430 the people well they were interested in 936 00:44:46,690 --> 00:44:43,310 things that maybe were less technical 937 00:44:48,670 --> 00:44:46,700 and more ancient mystery oriented so I 938 00:44:50,470 --> 00:44:48,680 wanted to do that justice and I but I 939 00:44:52,330 --> 00:44:50,480 didn't want to put off the professor 940 00:44:54,010 --> 00:44:52,340 because you know I that's something that 941 00:44:57,540 --> 00:44:54,020 would likely put him off 942 00:45:00,760 --> 00:44:57,550 so I I've put together an email that 943 00:45:04,630 --> 00:45:00,770 respectfully asked him the questions 944 00:45:08,980 --> 00:45:04,640 necessary and I actually I published the 945 00:45:12,610 --> 00:45:08,990 entire email in the Sumerian controversy 946 00:45:15,010 --> 00:45:12,620 she said okay so that people can see how 947 00:45:19,150 --> 00:45:15,020 I approach it you know so it doesn't 948 00:45:24,070 --> 00:45:19,160 look like okay well interesting let me 949 00:45:27,370 --> 00:45:24,080 ask you this was one of those questions 950 00:45:31,510 --> 00:45:27,380 or did they find any evidence or remains 951 00:45:34,330 --> 00:45:31,520 of giants that is an interesting 952 00:45:37,660 --> 00:45:34,340 question and I haven't read the book by 953 00:45:41,290 --> 00:45:37,670 the way I normally try to read read the 954 00:45:43,210 --> 00:45:41,300 books you know but I just read yours but 955 00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:43,220 I want to know did they find giant bones 956 00:45:47,980 --> 00:45:45,530 human bones did they find that because I 957 00:45:54,310 --> 00:45:47,990 know that there's been reports of that 958 00:45:58,680 --> 00:45:54,320 in that area they from my knowledge they 959 00:46:03,730 --> 00:45:58,690 have not found specifically giant bones 960 00:46:05,970 --> 00:46:03,740 they have found interesting skull 961 00:46:09,220 --> 00:46:05,980 arrangements and burials they have found 962 00:46:11,500 --> 00:46:09,230 a lot of different things some of the 963 00:46:14,140 --> 00:46:11,510 usual things you'd expect pottery and 964 00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:14,150 and whatnot they have found a lot of 965 00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:17,210 interesting things the the one thing 966 00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:20,570 that really stood out to me you know I 967 00:46:23,710 --> 00:46:22,370 wanted to know it had they thought we 968 00:46:27,880 --> 00:46:23,720 found any tablets is there any more 969 00:46:31,050 --> 00:46:27,890 information do we they did and from the 970 00:46:35,830 --> 00:46:31,060 initial interpretation of the tablets 971 00:46:38,020 --> 00:46:35,840 they the tablet spoke of bloodlines and 972 00:46:39,069 --> 00:46:38,030 and this is common in that time period 973 00:46:42,190 --> 00:46:39,079 where they were they list 974 00:46:43,479 --> 00:46:42,200 like the you know Kings list or you know 975 00:46:45,789 --> 00:46:43,489 if it's an administrative center they 976 00:46:48,969 --> 00:46:45,799 did that a lot with trying to record 977 00:46:51,910 --> 00:46:48,979 genealogy and whatnot but in addition to 978 00:46:54,579 --> 00:46:51,920 bloodlines that were different than the 979 00:46:57,519 --> 00:46:54,589 ones I had previously known about they 980 00:47:01,380 --> 00:46:57,529 found tablets that spoke of what could 981 00:47:05,140 --> 00:47:01,390 be interpreted as the Garden of Eden and 982 00:47:07,209 --> 00:47:05,150 was very interesting to me and there 983 00:47:09,009 --> 00:47:07,219 they had a lot more about that talking 984 00:47:10,749 --> 00:47:09,019 about the details of what the garden 985 00:47:14,140 --> 00:47:10,759 looked like and where it was located and 986 00:47:17,459 --> 00:47:14,150 and some different information that way 987 00:47:22,569 --> 00:47:17,469 and I wanted to know more about that and 988 00:47:26,440 --> 00:47:22,579 so you know I the email and I'm looking 989 00:47:28,859 --> 00:47:26,450 for a response before you know it I get 990 00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:28,869 no response I give him some time and and 991 00:47:33,039 --> 00:47:31,729 after a lot of back and forth it ends up 992 00:47:36,699 --> 00:47:33,049 well he just doesn't want to talk to me 993 00:47:39,069 --> 00:47:36,709 after all so so maybe my that's why I 994 00:47:40,690 --> 00:47:39,079 posted the email in it you know for 995 00:47:42,759 --> 00:47:40,700 people to see cuz I wanted them to say 996 00:47:44,829 --> 00:47:42,769 well you know judge it for yourself 997 00:47:47,789 --> 00:47:44,839 would you answer this email did I do it 998 00:47:51,309 --> 00:47:47,799 with enough PR and you know political 999 00:47:54,609 --> 00:47:51,319 you know maneuver ask him specifically 1000 00:47:56,859 --> 00:47:54,619 about Giants or giant artifacts I did 1001 00:47:59,049 --> 00:47:56,869 not it didn't really occur to me to do 1002 00:48:01,930 --> 00:47:59,059 so note you know I wasn't Inc I was 1003 00:48:05,199 --> 00:48:01,940 inquiring for myself about those matters 1004 00:48:07,539 --> 00:48:05,209 I wanted to know just more details and 1005 00:48:09,999 --> 00:48:07,549 the questions that were submitted to me 1006 00:48:12,569 --> 00:48:10,009 through Facebook did not include Giants 1007 00:48:17,140 --> 00:48:12,579 they they mostly included time-traveling 1008 00:48:20,650 --> 00:48:17,150 stargates Anunnaki the things basic 1009 00:48:24,640 --> 00:48:20,660 questions that you asked him he wouldn't 1010 00:48:27,130 --> 00:48:24,650 respond to any of it yeah because I yeah 1011 00:48:30,069 --> 00:48:27,140 I didn't ask him hey did you find aliens 1012 00:48:33,099 --> 00:48:30,079 or anything like preposterous I asked 1013 00:48:36,039 --> 00:48:33,109 him generally you know what what did 1014 00:48:38,289 --> 00:48:36,049 they find I again if you look at it in 1015 00:48:41,170 --> 00:48:38,299 the book you'll see and the only thing 1016 00:48:42,609 --> 00:48:41,180 that I said was you know what do you 1017 00:48:44,529 --> 00:48:42,619 make of various speculations and 1018 00:48:47,859 --> 00:48:44,539 theories regarding they ain't you know 1019 00:48:49,630 --> 00:48:47,869 ancient sumerians and then I put in 1020 00:48:50,620 --> 00:48:49,640 there in parentheses okay maybe this is 1021 00:48:52,540 --> 00:48:50,630 what turned him off but in the 1022 00:48:54,520 --> 00:48:52,550 parentheses then I said it 1023 00:48:57,640 --> 00:48:54,530 Time Traveller's various religious 1024 00:48:59,560 --> 00:48:57,650 significance etc okay so I could see why 1025 00:49:01,570 --> 00:48:59,570 that would maybe turn somebody off but 1026 00:49:03,070 --> 00:49:01,580 again I'm not there to make him happy I 1027 00:49:06,820 --> 00:49:03,080 was doing that on behalf of the people 1028 00:49:10,810 --> 00:49:06,830 who asked me to do so and if I received 1029 00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:10,820 an email like that as a teacher it would 1030 00:49:15,910 --> 00:49:13,130 be imperative to answer that because 1031 00:49:19,230 --> 00:49:15,920 even if I thought oh well that's just 1032 00:49:21,520 --> 00:49:19,240 crazy talk well it would be on my 1033 00:49:24,280 --> 00:49:21,530 shoulders it would be my responsibility 1034 00:49:26,380 --> 00:49:24,290 to then further educate that person not 1035 00:49:27,700 --> 00:49:26,390 to just ignore people and ignore the 1036 00:49:30,760 --> 00:49:27,710 public and stay in your own academic 1037 00:49:33,490 --> 00:49:30,770 bubble and not share your research so 1038 00:49:37,510 --> 00:49:33,500 you know that just that was what I got I 1039 00:49:40,360 --> 00:49:37,520 got a basic snubbing are those are those 1040 00:49:42,220 --> 00:49:40,370 excavations continuing this year in 1041 00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:42,230 light especially in light of everything 1042 00:49:50,230 --> 00:49:46,850 going on over there right now with this 1043 00:49:52,210 --> 00:49:50,240 whole Isis ISIL everything that's you 1044 00:49:54,490 --> 00:49:52,220 know that's that's happening over there 1045 00:49:56,460 --> 00:49:54,500 is there is there any current 1046 00:49:59,590 --> 00:49:56,470 excavations going on at that site now 1047 00:50:01,720 --> 00:49:59,600 there is actually they've just wrapped 1048 00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:01,730 up they went back you went back this 1049 00:50:07,030 --> 00:50:04,970 year so this this was very interesting 1050 00:50:09,970 --> 00:50:07,040 to me I got nowhere with the professor I 1051 00:50:12,370 --> 00:50:09,980 got nowhere in general so I did what 1052 00:50:15,430 --> 00:50:12,380 everyone says to do right follow the 1053 00:50:17,590 --> 00:50:15,440 money so I thought well let me just see 1054 00:50:22,690 --> 00:50:17,600 what I can find here and that's where I 1055 00:50:26,440 --> 00:50:22,700 found the controversy in following the 1056 00:50:30,430 --> 00:50:26,450 money we're always what is the 1057 00:50:31,030 --> 00:50:30,440 controversy dr. Lin that you found in 1058 00:50:33,550 --> 00:50:31,040 your research 1059 00:50:37,690 --> 00:50:33,560 the main corporate backers of the whole 1060 00:50:40,480 --> 00:50:37,700 operation is Big Oil and this probably 1061 00:50:43,390 --> 00:50:40,490 doesn't come as much of a surprise as it 1062 00:50:46,990 --> 00:50:43,400 should it may be but it is big oil 1063 00:50:49,030 --> 00:50:47,000 specifically Gulf sands petroleum now 1064 00:50:50,500 --> 00:50:49,040 it's not just that they donated some 1065 00:50:52,330 --> 00:50:50,510 money or that they sponsored anything I 1066 00:50:56,830 --> 00:50:52,340 mean that that could be understandable 1067 00:51:00,250 --> 00:50:56,840 but they are spearheading it so much so 1068 00:51:02,110 --> 00:51:00,260 that the archeologists on site they 1069 00:51:03,340 --> 00:51:02,120 don't report to the college they don't 1070 00:51:05,440 --> 00:51:03,350 report to the University of Manchester 1071 00:51:06,370 --> 00:51:05,450 they don't report to the government they 1072 00:51:10,150 --> 00:51:06,380 they own 1073 00:51:14,380 --> 00:51:10,160 report to the corporation and so much so 1074 00:51:16,840 --> 00:51:14,390 that they they hold symposiums and 1075 00:51:18,550 --> 00:51:16,850 meetings and lectures and talks and they 1076 00:51:19,270 --> 00:51:18,560 only publish their results for the 1077 00:51:23,410 --> 00:51:19,280 corporation 1078 00:51:25,810 --> 00:51:23,420 now Gulf sands petroleum was once a 1079 00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:25,820 Houston Texas based oil company that had 1080 00:51:31,060 --> 00:51:29,330 American directors there listed as one 1081 00:51:34,210 --> 00:51:31,070 of the founders of the excavation 1082 00:51:38,890 --> 00:51:34,220 project you know completely so they they 1083 00:51:41,050 --> 00:51:38,900 really had an interest in this in as I 1084 00:51:45,450 --> 00:51:41,060 said it was a it was located in a u.s. 1085 00:51:49,450 --> 00:51:45,460 first in 2008 the US Treasury Department 1086 00:51:51,190 --> 00:51:49,460 declared the Gulf sands petroleum was 1087 00:51:54,730 --> 00:51:51,200 benefiting from corruption in 1088 00:51:56,980 --> 00:51:54,740 implementing power plays by using Syrian 1089 00:51:59,530 --> 00:51:56,990 intelligence officers to intimidate 1090 00:52:02,170 --> 00:51:59,540 certain Syrian cabinet members so that 1091 00:52:05,590 --> 00:52:02,180 they could gain access to oil 1092 00:52:07,510 --> 00:52:05,600 exploration first and foremost I'm KITT 1093 00:52:10,510 --> 00:52:07,520 again this is probably no surprise to 1094 00:52:13,030 --> 00:52:10,520 anybody big oil they're pretty corrupt 1095 00:52:15,190 --> 00:52:13,040 as we know but the u.s. imposed 1096 00:52:17,710 --> 00:52:15,200 sanctions on golf sands so the company 1097 00:52:20,620 --> 00:52:17,720 fled the country and relocated their 1098 00:52:24,130 --> 00:52:20,630 operation to London now the Gulf sands 1099 00:52:26,110 --> 00:52:24,140 board reads like a roster of global 1100 00:52:26,650 --> 00:52:26,120 banking heads and nothing but corporate 1101 00:52:28,930 --> 00:52:26,660 interest 1102 00:52:31,390 --> 00:52:28,940 they've been frequently involved in 1103 00:52:36,930 --> 00:52:31,400 corruption scandals and routinely dodge 1104 00:52:40,120 --> 00:52:36,940 UN sanctions and any other sanctions or 1105 00:52:43,420 --> 00:52:40,130 any rules they're just a total rule 1106 00:52:46,540 --> 00:52:43,430 breaker they've even by the U the EU 1107 00:52:48,790 --> 00:52:46,550 called them a propaganda tool they've 1108 00:52:52,060 --> 00:52:48,800 been intertwined with global politics 1109 00:52:55,780 --> 00:52:52,070 and they've been rushing to become a 1110 00:52:58,480 --> 00:52:55,790 member of the UN Global Compact they of 1111 00:53:01,350 --> 00:52:58,490 trying to have such a global reach so 1112 00:53:05,200 --> 00:53:01,360 it's it's interesting when you look at 1113 00:53:06,970 --> 00:53:05,210 you know their site were they deep deep 1114 00:53:09,490 --> 00:53:06,980 within their corporate site you can find 1115 00:53:13,150 --> 00:53:09,500 where they talk about this project of 1116 00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:13,160 theirs to dig in the region and it 1117 00:53:19,090 --> 00:53:16,010 sounds self-aggrandizing it's really 1118 00:53:19,900 --> 00:53:19,100 wild they say we as scholars feel that 1119 00:53:22,720 --> 00:53:19,910 the 1120 00:53:25,539 --> 00:53:22,730 Jerell product we offer has an intense 1121 00:53:27,789 --> 00:53:25,549 if somewhat intangible value by showing 1122 00:53:31,180 --> 00:53:27,799 the great significance of the past for 1123 00:53:32,589 --> 00:53:31,190 our common advancement it and and so you 1124 00:53:34,799 --> 00:53:32,599 know it's just a bunch of rhetoric but 1125 00:53:37,960 --> 00:53:34,809 the logo they use is quite interesting 1126 00:53:41,789 --> 00:53:37,970 they say they talk about their logo as 1127 00:53:44,920 --> 00:53:41,799 being a symbol of showing two deities 1128 00:53:47,170 --> 00:53:44,930 shown supporting jointly a standard 1129 00:53:50,079 --> 00:53:47,180 symbolizing the worlds of business and 1130 00:53:52,960 --> 00:53:50,089 academia holding up all of civilization 1131 00:53:56,920 --> 00:53:52,970 and do you have that up on your website 1132 00:53:58,809 --> 00:53:56,930 I don't and the reason I don't is well 1133 00:54:00,640 --> 00:53:58,819 let me just say this in the book I say 1134 00:54:01,779 --> 00:54:00,650 that I will post it on my blog because 1135 00:54:04,599 --> 00:54:01,789 of copyright I certainly couldn't 1136 00:54:11,230 --> 00:54:04,609 publish it when I posted it on my blog I 1137 00:54:11,829 --> 00:54:11,240 got a note to take that down okay hold 1138 00:54:13,539 --> 00:54:11,839 it right there 1139 00:54:15,490 --> 00:54:13,549 we're gonna pick this back up and we 1140 00:54:16,870 --> 00:54:15,500 come back from break dr. heather Lynn 1141 00:54:19,059 --> 00:54:16,880 and we're gonna ask her what the 1142 00:54:22,120 --> 00:54:19,069 connection is to big oil and those 1143 00:54:24,609 --> 00:54:22,130 bloodlines that goes back from those 1144 00:54:26,859 --> 00:54:24,619 tablets we'll be right back after this 1145 00:54:29,710 --> 00:54:26,869 short break here on epic voyages written 1146 00:54:31,930 --> 00:54:29,720 and welcome back to epic voyages radio 1147 00:54:34,839 --> 00:54:31,940 with our special guest dr. heather Lynn 1148 00:54:38,529 --> 00:54:34,849 our topic tonight is the Cimmerian 1149 00:54:39,849 --> 00:54:38,539 controversy a special report Heather 1150 00:54:43,349 --> 00:54:39,859 just before the break we were talking 1151 00:54:47,349 --> 00:54:43,359 about the new excavations that went 1152 00:54:50,039 --> 00:54:47,359 underway in the ancient city of her back 1153 00:54:54,430 --> 00:54:50,049 in 2013 and they discovered something 1154 00:54:57,130 --> 00:54:54,440 really really interesting but the 1155 00:54:59,650 --> 00:54:57,140 controversy isn't really the site 1156 00:55:02,109 --> 00:54:59,660 necessarily it's what's connected to the 1157 00:55:04,059 --> 00:55:02,119 site and you were going to tell us about 1158 00:55:07,240 --> 00:55:04,069 that connection to those bloodlines 1159 00:55:08,460 --> 00:55:07,250 those Royal bloodlines what is all that 1160 00:55:13,930 --> 00:55:08,470 about 1161 00:55:18,400 --> 00:55:13,940 well the in addition to Big Oil funding 1162 00:55:22,000 --> 00:55:18,410 the excavation the the the other big 1163 00:55:24,430 --> 00:55:22,010 players with well let's just say the big 1164 00:55:28,960 --> 00:55:24,440 oil was first specifically gulf sands 1165 00:55:31,180 --> 00:55:28,970 and then underneath them were other very 1166 00:55:33,670 --> 00:55:31,190 large players the British Foreign 1167 00:55:35,540 --> 00:55:33,680 Commonwealth office 1168 00:55:39,410 --> 00:55:35,550 including the government communications 1169 00:55:42,680 --> 00:55:39,420 headquarters BBC secret intelligence 1170 00:55:44,150 --> 00:55:42,690 service and you know some interesting 1171 00:55:46,540 --> 00:55:44,160 things that you wouldn't think would 1172 00:55:48,830 --> 00:55:46,550 have any interest necessarily in 1173 00:55:53,630 --> 00:55:48,840 archaeological sites and then there was 1174 00:55:57,350 --> 00:55:53,640 also a very large donor from the thisin 1175 00:55:58,880 --> 00:55:57,360 family and the if I don't know if your 1176 00:56:02,180 --> 00:55:58,890 listeners are familiar with issen family 1177 00:56:05,630 --> 00:56:02,190 but they are one of the richest families 1178 00:56:08,030 --> 00:56:05,640 in the world they it's been widely 1179 00:56:10,360 --> 00:56:08,040 accepted that they own the world's 1180 00:56:13,070 --> 00:56:10,370 largest private collection of relics 1181 00:56:16,070 --> 00:56:13,080 said to be only rivaled by Queen 1182 00:56:21,950 --> 00:56:16,080 Elizabeth herself but they got their 1183 00:56:26,450 --> 00:56:21,960 massive fortune through Nazi the 1184 00:56:28,730 --> 00:56:26,460 activity let's just say that they 1185 00:56:30,560 --> 00:56:28,740 initially I mean they have huge 1186 00:56:32,210 --> 00:56:30,570 corporation they have huge they've 1187 00:56:34,820 --> 00:56:32,220 established steelworks elevators 1188 00:56:36,620 --> 00:56:34,830 escalators industrial conglomerates 1189 00:56:41,150 --> 00:56:36,630 banks just art collections they have 1190 00:56:44,810 --> 00:56:41,160 money just beyond beyond it is they're 1191 00:56:47,030 --> 00:56:44,820 not rich they are wealthy there were 1192 00:56:48,980 --> 00:56:47,040 just one of the many mega rich bloodline 1193 00:56:52,250 --> 00:56:48,990 powerhouses just why is everybody so 1194 00:56:54,290 --> 00:56:52,260 interested in this site though you know 1195 00:56:56,390 --> 00:56:54,300 I keep I kept looking into that see like 1196 00:57:00,680 --> 00:56:56,400 well what is this you know Fritz Thyssen 1197 00:57:03,200 --> 00:57:00,690 was the first man to get the 1198 00:57:05,060 --> 00:57:03,210 newly-formed at the time Nazi Party off 1199 00:57:07,790 --> 00:57:05,070 the ground he gave them their largest 1200 00:57:11,060 --> 00:57:07,800 injection of funds I mean these these 1201 00:57:13,250 --> 00:57:11,070 people they they have their roots in a 1202 00:57:15,230 --> 00:57:13,260 lot of nefarious things and so why would 1203 00:57:17,840 --> 00:57:15,240 they be interested necessarily in the 1204 00:57:19,670 --> 00:57:17,850 site yeah that's been the main question 1205 00:57:22,930 --> 00:57:19,680 but they've bankrolled this and 1206 00:57:25,430 --> 00:57:22,940 bankrolled this and from what I 1207 00:57:27,050 --> 00:57:25,440 understand you know and I put all this 1208 00:57:28,730 --> 00:57:27,060 in my book if anyone is interested I 1209 00:57:31,730 --> 00:57:28,740 have all the connections laid out to 1210 00:57:37,550 --> 00:57:31,740 who's related to whom and and all the 1211 00:57:40,910 --> 00:57:37,560 relations down to even the relation of 1212 00:57:43,970 --> 00:57:40,920 wooley to all of this and his connection 1213 00:57:46,670 --> 00:57:43,980 to skull and bones it sounds 1214 00:57:49,430 --> 00:57:46,680 preposterous I would have never 1215 00:57:51,770 --> 00:57:49,440 ever even listen to anybody if they told 1216 00:57:56,300 --> 00:57:51,780 me this before I just found it for 1217 00:57:58,430 --> 00:57:56,310 myself and so I found that a lot of this 1218 00:58:00,050 --> 00:57:58,440 has to do with the Federal Reserve there 1219 00:58:01,190 --> 00:58:00,060 are all of these you know what you would 1220 00:58:04,640 --> 00:58:01,200 think would be these stereotypical 1221 00:58:05,600 --> 00:58:04,650 players and all this you know elite 1222 00:58:07,850 --> 00:58:05,610 family 1223 00:58:10,010 --> 00:58:07,860 talk that goes on these days and I 1224 00:58:12,200 --> 00:58:10,020 thought surely this isn't serious this 1225 00:58:14,480 --> 00:58:12,210 can't be but it is and I found it I've 1226 00:58:16,280 --> 00:58:14,490 published it all for everybody to see 1227 00:58:18,770 --> 00:58:16,290 all of the connections so again it makes 1228 00:58:22,400 --> 00:58:18,780 you wonder okay why are these people 1229 00:58:26,120 --> 00:58:22,410 these big players looking there and what 1230 00:58:29,090 --> 00:58:26,130 have they want well this--an himself he 1231 00:58:31,130 --> 00:58:29,100 is a huge art collector so you could say 1232 00:58:36,200 --> 00:58:31,140 well he's looking for relics that's what 1233 00:58:38,230 --> 00:58:36,210 he wants the oil company well I mean 1234 00:58:42,320 --> 00:58:38,240 they're clearly prospecting for 1235 00:58:44,090 --> 00:58:42,330 opportunities to you know get oil but 1236 00:58:48,890 --> 00:58:44,100 why are they so interested in the 1237 00:58:50,690 --> 00:58:48,900 cultural you know material there and the 1238 00:58:52,460 --> 00:58:50,700 university will obviously they're a 1239 00:58:54,410 --> 00:58:52,470 university they want to keep their jobs 1240 00:58:58,460 --> 00:58:54,420 but this is something I want to to 1241 00:59:00,650 --> 00:58:58,470 really distinguish here because a lot of 1242 00:59:02,990 --> 00:59:00,660 people when they look at different sites 1243 00:59:04,750 --> 00:59:03,000 or or maybe something being lost or 1244 00:59:07,250 --> 00:59:04,760 found or anything 1245 00:59:09,740 --> 00:59:07,260 conspiracy wise or or whatever about 1246 00:59:11,840 --> 00:59:09,750 ancient mysteries most of the time the 1247 00:59:14,600 --> 00:59:11,850 blame falls on the University and I have 1248 00:59:16,490 --> 00:59:14,610 to say the university they are just one 1249 00:59:18,800 --> 00:59:16,500 of the many players in these types of 1250 00:59:20,570 --> 00:59:18,810 situations they are they're trying to 1251 00:59:24,710 --> 00:59:20,580 secure their jobs and their monies and 1252 00:59:27,920 --> 00:59:24,720 their whatever it it's the bigger people 1253 00:59:32,330 --> 00:59:27,930 who basically use the universities as a 1254 00:59:34,190 --> 00:59:32,340 way to launder money so the university 1255 00:59:35,930 --> 00:59:34,200 the professor's they're not necessarily 1256 00:59:39,680 --> 00:59:35,940 interested in finding any bloodlines 1257 00:59:42,230 --> 00:59:39,690 Giants etc it's the people who are 1258 00:59:44,030 --> 00:59:42,240 funding then the universities to go and 1259 00:59:47,090 --> 00:59:44,040 do that and those are the people that we 1260 00:59:48,170 --> 00:59:47,100 rarely get to hear from but those are 1261 00:59:50,600 --> 00:59:48,180 the people that a lot of the 1262 00:59:52,070 --> 00:59:50,610 universities answer to directly and so 1263 00:59:52,340 --> 00:59:52,080 that's why it is important to follow the 1264 00:59:56,710 --> 00:59:52,350 money 1265 00:59:59,600 --> 00:59:56,720 but in this discovery of the tablets 1266 01:00:02,030 --> 00:59:59,610 what I found 1267 01:00:04,970 --> 01:00:02,040 is that they lost some of them or so 1268 01:00:08,210 --> 01:00:04,980 they said they they claim the tablets 1269 01:00:10,750 --> 01:00:08,220 they claim now I don't buy it one bit I 1270 01:00:13,060 --> 01:00:10,760 don't buy it at all how do you lose 1271 01:00:17,630 --> 01:00:13,070 tablets that you just free yourself 1272 01:00:19,220 --> 01:00:17,640 published excitedly that you found and 1273 01:00:20,720 --> 01:00:19,230 you know you're dating and cleaning and 1274 01:00:24,410 --> 01:00:20,730 whatever and there's pictures of them 1275 01:00:26,390 --> 01:00:24,420 here they are how do you lose those you 1276 01:00:28,550 --> 01:00:26,400 know I mean I guess it's possible but 1277 01:00:31,550 --> 01:00:28,560 they didn't lose anything else they only 1278 01:00:35,540 --> 01:00:31,560 lost these particular tablets why these 1279 01:00:37,790 --> 01:00:35,550 those tablets say by the way they well 1280 01:00:40,310 --> 01:00:37,800 the only information that I've been able 1281 01:00:43,880 --> 01:00:40,320 to get that is confirmed on what the 1282 01:00:47,150 --> 01:00:43,890 tablets say front like directly from the 1283 01:00:49,400 --> 01:00:47,160 University has been the talk about the 1284 01:00:52,310 --> 01:00:49,410 Garden of Eden and some details about 1285 01:00:54,350 --> 01:00:52,320 that and a new list of bloodlines that 1286 01:00:56,510 --> 01:00:54,360 are different than the traditional kings 1287 01:00:58,640 --> 01:00:56,520 list that we know of what do you mean 1288 01:01:02,780 --> 01:00:58,650 they're they're different they're 1289 01:01:04,790 --> 01:01:02,790 different in the Sumerian Kings list by 1290 01:01:07,190 --> 01:01:04,800 different names different names 1291 01:01:10,730 --> 01:01:07,200 different families different families 1292 01:01:13,780 --> 01:01:10,740 different names different dates so some 1293 01:01:16,880 --> 01:01:13,790 of the dates it contradicts exactly and 1294 01:01:18,770 --> 01:01:16,890 that's important and that's interesting 1295 01:01:22,130 --> 01:01:18,780 was it and was it was it 1296 01:01:24,680 --> 01:01:22,140 I mean is it in fact I don't know is it 1297 01:01:26,660 --> 01:01:24,690 information that they know of on those 1298 01:01:30,170 --> 01:01:26,670 tablets was any of that information 1299 01:01:34,280 --> 01:01:30,180 vetted I mean does is it is it empirical 1300 01:01:37,280 --> 01:01:34,290 you know empirically proven that okay 1301 01:01:38,750 --> 01:01:37,290 these dates now contradict what we know 1302 01:01:43,130 --> 01:01:38,760 in the Sumerians king list which by the 1303 01:01:46,400 --> 01:01:43,140 way is controversial exactly but but is 1304 01:01:49,040 --> 01:01:46,410 it is it that hey you know this 1305 01:01:51,140 --> 01:01:49,050 information you know may be true and 1306 01:01:54,830 --> 01:01:51,150 correct and oh by the way now we've lost 1307 01:01:57,260 --> 01:01:54,840 them yeah you know that that's 1308 01:02:00,740 --> 01:01:57,270 interesting I couldn't say for sure it's 1309 01:02:04,370 --> 01:02:00,750 either I mean in terms of it being 1310 01:02:07,130 --> 01:02:04,380 vetted they're being researched by you 1311 01:02:08,630 --> 01:02:07,140 know some archaeologists who they're 1312 01:02:10,790 --> 01:02:08,640 pretty much at the top of their field 1313 01:02:13,320 --> 01:02:10,800 they're there I have no reason to doubt 1314 01:02:14,970 --> 01:02:13,330 that their information is correct 1315 01:02:17,910 --> 01:02:14,980 in that sense but in the sense that 1316 01:02:19,080 --> 01:02:17,920 they're being very upfront and honest 1317 01:02:21,060 --> 01:02:19,090 about their finds I mean that's 1318 01:02:22,860 --> 01:02:21,070 something that is to be questioned who 1319 01:02:26,040 --> 01:02:22,870 knows there's always that question of 1320 01:02:28,290 --> 01:02:26,050 bias here are they you know did they 1321 01:02:30,030 --> 01:02:28,300 find something that contradicted you 1322 01:02:32,100 --> 01:02:30,040 know what the general established 1323 01:02:33,960 --> 01:02:32,110 narrative is therefore they want to get 1324 01:02:36,020 --> 01:02:33,970 rid of it or is it that they want to 1325 01:02:38,160 --> 01:02:36,030 look into it further without anybody 1326 01:02:41,700 --> 01:02:38,170 looking at it with the fine-tooth comb 1327 01:02:43,710 --> 01:02:41,710 or is it because that's not really their 1328 01:02:46,800 --> 01:02:43,720 research because they don't answer to 1329 01:02:48,450 --> 01:02:46,810 anybody other than a mega wealthy art 1330 01:02:53,220 --> 01:02:48,460 collector well exactly 1331 01:02:55,470 --> 01:02:53,230 war war you know you don't want that 1332 01:02:59,280 --> 01:02:55,480 information getting out for one reason 1333 01:03:03,420 --> 01:02:59,290 or another yeah what you said it follow 1334 01:03:07,020 --> 01:03:03,430 the money and look if they're wealthy 1335 01:03:10,500 --> 01:03:07,030 enough to finance a huge excavation like 1336 01:03:14,400 --> 01:03:10,510 that on a whim they're powerful enough 1337 01:03:17,010 --> 01:03:14,410 to make those tablets disappear and let 1338 01:03:18,960 --> 01:03:17,020 me I believe that and let me tell you 1339 01:03:21,240 --> 01:03:18,970 when you talk about an excavation like 1340 01:03:23,960 --> 01:03:21,250 this this is huge and this is a war-torn 1341 01:03:27,330 --> 01:03:23,970 area they don't have this particular 1342 01:03:29,430 --> 01:03:27,340 location I mean yes it sits outside of 1343 01:03:31,170 --> 01:03:29,440 Baghdad but where they're digging has 1344 01:03:33,990 --> 01:03:31,180 hardly any infrastructure they've had to 1345 01:03:36,390 --> 01:03:34,000 kind of have makeshift roads just to get 1346 01:03:38,720 --> 01:03:36,400 to the site not only that they can't go 1347 01:03:42,000 --> 01:03:38,730 out there unprotected they have massive 1348 01:03:44,970 --> 01:03:42,010 help and protection they fly in they 1349 01:03:49,440 --> 01:03:44,980 it's a multi-million dollar endeavor and 1350 01:03:53,300 --> 01:03:49,450 and I was happy recently this past year 1351 01:03:55,350 --> 01:03:53,310 I was able to get my hands on the entire 1352 01:03:57,090 --> 01:03:55,360 documentation of all their funding 1353 01:03:59,670 --> 01:03:57,100 financials and how much everything cost 1354 01:04:01,440 --> 01:03:59,680 down to the itemized tea did you publish 1355 01:04:03,540 --> 01:04:01,450 that in your book the Cimmerian 1356 01:04:05,850 --> 01:04:03,550 controversy no because I found this 1357 01:04:09,090 --> 01:04:05,860 afterwards and what I did with the 1358 01:04:10,470 --> 01:04:09,100 Sumerian controversy was I wanted what I 1359 01:04:12,000 --> 01:04:10,480 wanted to do with this because I found 1360 01:04:15,050 --> 01:04:12,010 this information and it just was coming 1361 01:04:17,640 --> 01:04:15,060 in so quick and I wasn't really sure I 1362 01:04:19,800 --> 01:04:17,650 wanted to get more information I had so 1363 01:04:21,750 --> 01:04:19,810 many questions and as you could imagine 1364 01:04:24,630 --> 01:04:21,760 and I had a lot of people giving me 1365 01:04:26,940 --> 01:04:24,640 input and so what I did before the 1366 01:04:29,670 --> 01:04:26,950 information could be lost I 1367 01:04:32,880 --> 01:04:29,680 put it out as quickly as I could and I 1368 01:04:36,120 --> 01:04:32,890 published this report it's not long it's 1369 01:04:38,339 --> 01:04:36,130 not expensive I did it in in order to 1370 01:04:40,589 --> 01:04:38,349 raise money for my nonprofit 1371 01:04:43,799 --> 01:04:40,599 organization star the Society for truth 1372 01:04:47,160 --> 01:04:43,809 and archaeological research and I put it 1373 01:04:49,950 --> 01:04:47,170 out thinking okay this is incomplete 1374 01:04:52,620 --> 01:04:49,960 research I need more information maybe 1375 01:04:54,900 --> 01:04:52,630 if I put this out here one I had already 1376 01:04:56,640 --> 01:04:54,910 made some ripples with contacting people 1377 01:05:00,270 --> 01:04:56,650 and I kind of made some people angry by 1378 01:05:02,609 --> 01:05:00,280 posting the copyrighted strange logo on 1379 01:05:04,500 --> 01:05:02,619 my site and contacting the professor and 1380 01:05:07,200 --> 01:05:04,510 just sort of making it known that I was 1381 01:05:08,280 --> 01:05:07,210 poking around so I put this out one for 1382 01:05:12,680 --> 01:05:08,290 my own protection because I was 1383 01:05:15,569 --> 01:05:12,690 receiving death threats and too so that 1384 01:05:17,400 --> 01:05:15,579 other people could that maybe have 1385 01:05:20,160 --> 01:05:17,410 something to contribute could read this 1386 01:05:22,410 --> 01:05:20,170 or help me out somehow here my 1387 01:05:24,450 --> 01:05:22,420 interviews anything and just give me 1388 01:05:26,870 --> 01:05:24,460 more data you know because that's how I 1389 01:05:30,630 --> 01:05:26,880 initially found this anyway yes it was a 1390 01:05:32,220 --> 01:05:30,640 an AP press release so I was going to 1391 01:05:33,839 --> 01:05:32,230 find out about it anyway but I had 1392 01:05:35,670 --> 01:05:33,849 somebody who felt that it was important 1393 01:05:37,559 --> 01:05:35,680 enough to bring it to my attention so I 1394 01:05:40,319 --> 01:05:37,569 thought maybe there are other people who 1395 01:05:41,880 --> 01:05:40,329 have information and so I put it out 1396 01:05:45,299 --> 01:05:41,890 there as a plea like okay here we go 1397 01:05:48,000 --> 01:05:45,309 help me out here and Wow I was not 1398 01:05:52,650 --> 01:05:48,010 prepared for the amount of information I 1399 01:05:54,539 --> 01:05:52,660 got back after this and so I am in the 1400 01:05:56,460 --> 01:05:54,549 middle that I have land of the Watchers 1401 01:05:58,500 --> 01:05:56,470 which is the follow-up to Sumerian 1402 01:06:02,520 --> 01:05:58,510 content okay so you've got another book 1403 01:06:04,799 --> 01:06:02,530 coming and that has it all really really 1404 01:06:07,289 --> 01:06:04,809 you know the update you know sumerian 1405 01:06:10,859 --> 01:06:07,299 controversy got the ball rolling now 1406 01:06:14,579 --> 01:06:10,869 this is all the all the juicy stuff all 1407 01:06:17,720 --> 01:06:14,589 the good land of the watchers that's 1408 01:06:22,650 --> 01:06:17,730 that's coming out their new book yes 1409 01:06:28,140 --> 01:06:22,660 because they sorry no no finish up oh I 1410 01:06:32,849 --> 01:06:28,150 just they did go back this past January 1411 01:06:34,680 --> 01:06:32,859 and the excavations concluded in May of 1412 01:06:37,230 --> 01:06:34,690 this past year the stump this past 1413 01:06:40,680 --> 01:06:37,240 spring so they were they went back and 1414 01:06:42,450 --> 01:06:40,690 they found more and they 1415 01:06:44,309 --> 01:06:42,460 I think they know that people are now 1416 01:06:46,620 --> 01:06:44,319 starting to look because they've made a 1417 01:06:48,030 --> 01:06:46,630 concerted effort to put it out there and 1418 01:06:53,150 --> 01:06:48,040 like a third kind of way 1419 01:06:57,839 --> 01:06:53,160 very interesting Wow in a new excavation 1420 01:06:59,760 --> 01:06:57,849 that's that's not even fully ex they 1421 01:07:01,650 --> 01:06:59,770 find tablets by the way just real 1422 01:07:05,160 --> 01:07:01,660 quickly what language was it in was it 1423 01:07:07,950 --> 01:07:05,170 in the Akkadian it was it was a 1424 01:07:11,220 --> 01:07:07,960 cuneiform they it was actually in 1425 01:07:14,640 --> 01:07:11,230 Sumerian Wow 1426 01:07:16,559 --> 01:07:14,650 all right cuneiform interesting okay I 1427 01:07:19,290 --> 01:07:16,569 know that the chat room is burning up 1428 01:07:20,760 --> 01:07:19,300 with questions so I want you to call in 1429 01:07:23,339 --> 01:07:20,770 with your questions that's kind of my 1430 01:07:26,040 --> 01:07:23,349 thing I like people to interact and call 1431 01:07:28,109 --> 01:07:26,050 in that's what a radio shows about got 1432 01:07:29,910 --> 01:07:28,119 you calling in and participating one 1433 01:07:32,700 --> 01:07:29,920 triple eight nine one nine two three 1434 01:07:36,450 --> 01:07:32,710 five five your question for dr. heather 1435 01:07:40,260 --> 01:07:36,460 Lynn one triple eight nine one nine two 1436 01:07:42,510 --> 01:07:40,270 three five five and I know you got 1437 01:07:46,650 --> 01:07:42,520 questions so get on the phone it's a 1438 01:07:47,700 --> 01:07:46,660 toll-free number call in that's what we 1439 01:07:50,370 --> 01:07:47,710 want you to do calling with your 1440 01:07:52,559 --> 01:07:50,380 questions and we'll get them on there or 1441 01:07:54,599 --> 01:07:52,569 if you get comments we would love to 1442 01:07:57,240 --> 01:07:54,609 hear from you by the way make sure you 1443 01:08:01,050 --> 01:07:57,250 go to dr. Lin's website it's dr. Lin 1444 01:08:04,859 --> 01:08:01,060 it's dr dr. heather Lynn dr. heather 1445 01:08:09,079 --> 01:08:04,869 Lynn comm and her last name is ly and n 1446 01:08:12,300 --> 01:08:09,089 so it's dr. dr dr. heather Lynn ly n n 1447 01:08:13,770 --> 01:08:12,310 comm make sure you go there call in with 1448 01:08:17,820 --> 01:08:13,780 your questions when triple eight nine 1449 01:08:19,860 --> 01:08:17,830 one nine two three five five and as soon 1450 01:08:23,010 --> 01:08:19,870 as you call in we'll get you on the air 1451 01:08:24,599 --> 01:08:23,020 if you have to wait a minute or so then 1452 01:08:27,950 --> 01:08:24,609 be patient we'll get back with you and 1453 01:08:30,269 --> 01:08:27,960 get you on the air okay 1454 01:08:32,189 --> 01:08:30,279 so you got a follow-up book called the 1455 01:08:34,800 --> 01:08:32,199 land of the Watchers which is a follow 1456 01:08:39,539 --> 01:08:34,810 up to the original book the Cimmerian 1457 01:08:42,809 --> 01:08:39,549 controversy and when you ask for more 1458 01:08:46,110 --> 01:08:42,819 information about this particular site 1459 01:08:50,010 --> 01:08:46,120 you got a wealth of information I'm 1460 01:08:53,430 --> 01:08:50,020 wondering what they found this year do 1461 01:08:54,749 --> 01:08:53,440 you know well I know that the team was a 1462 01:08:59,450 --> 01:08:54,759 lot larger this year 1463 01:09:03,530 --> 01:08:59,460 so they they whatever they determine 1464 01:09:06,900 --> 01:09:03,540 last year they thought that it was worth 1465 01:09:09,539 --> 01:09:06,910 reinvesting more now so they did find 1466 01:09:11,190 --> 01:09:09,549 enough and and this is they you don't do 1467 01:09:14,999 --> 01:09:11,200 all this just for some pottery pieces 1468 01:09:18,300 --> 01:09:15,009 sorry you just don't you don't do this 1469 01:09:22,890 --> 01:09:18,310 for tiny pieces of pottery there they 1470 01:09:24,720 --> 01:09:22,900 have found something and and this is 1471 01:09:30,829 --> 01:09:24,730 what the the lead on the project 1472 01:09:34,410 --> 01:09:30,839 actually said she had this kind of 1473 01:09:37,590 --> 01:09:34,420 strange tweet that just said we are 1474 01:09:40,110 --> 01:09:37,600 searching for information not objects 1475 01:09:42,539 --> 01:09:40,120 and I thought that was interesting so I 1476 01:09:44,970 --> 01:09:42,549 mean it's interesting they're searching 1477 01:09:46,170 --> 01:09:44,980 for information not objects yes and so I 1478 01:09:47,670 --> 01:09:46,180 just thought you know take that for what 1479 01:09:50,550 --> 01:09:47,680 you will but I just found that to be 1480 01:09:53,099 --> 01:09:50,560 quite intriguing and so another thing 1481 01:09:56,280 --> 01:09:53,109 that's interesting they have the great 1482 01:10:00,540 --> 01:09:56,290 nephew of sir Leonard Woolley Alastair 1483 01:10:03,150 --> 01:10:00,550 Lyon there too because of course it's a 1484 01:10:05,670 --> 01:10:03,160 family affair everything they do is 1485 01:10:08,610 --> 01:10:05,680 traced back to you know various 1486 01:10:10,800 --> 01:10:08,620 bloodlines you can't get involved in 1487 01:10:13,140 --> 01:10:10,810 this type of inquiry unless you're well 1488 01:10:15,150 --> 01:10:13,150 connected so it's it's sort of cronyism 1489 01:10:18,000 --> 01:10:15,160 they're all out there you know doing 1490 01:10:22,530 --> 01:10:18,010 their thing but they have a very large 1491 01:10:25,890 --> 01:10:22,540 team and they have not now in addition 1492 01:10:29,160 --> 01:10:25,900 to this this complex this administrative 1493 01:10:31,350 --> 01:10:29,170 building they have found a second 1494 01:10:34,770 --> 01:10:31,360 building just a short distance away so 1495 01:10:36,780 --> 01:10:34,780 what we are uncovering here that just is 1496 01:10:39,510 --> 01:10:36,790 not getting enough news coverage at all 1497 01:10:43,200 --> 01:10:39,520 is the potential for an enormous 1498 01:10:45,800 --> 01:10:43,210 enormous metropolitan area it's not just 1499 01:10:50,910 --> 01:10:45,810 it's not just the ziggurat it's far more 1500 01:10:55,850 --> 01:10:50,920 far more hmm okay Heather we got a color 1501 01:10:58,770 --> 01:10:55,860 from New York bill are you on the line 1502 01:11:02,970 --> 01:10:58,780 yes I am Eric how are you hello dr. Lynn 1503 01:11:05,820 --> 01:11:02,980 hi Bill how are you how are you I just 1504 01:11:07,250 --> 01:11:05,830 have a quick question how is it that the 1505 01:11:08,669 --> 01:11:07,260 government's that these awesome 1506 01:11:12,330 --> 01:11:08,679 archaeological site 1507 01:11:14,310 --> 01:11:12,340 arrests allow them to take control or 1508 01:11:15,989 --> 01:11:14,320 are they being pulled off I mean are 1509 01:11:19,770 --> 01:11:15,999 they being paid off to allow this kind 1510 01:11:21,989 --> 01:11:19,780 of behavior to go on in those sites yes 1511 01:11:23,370 --> 01:11:21,999 I mean in a nutshell yes that's exactly 1512 01:11:27,330 --> 01:11:23,380 what's going on 1513 01:11:28,979 --> 01:11:27,340 they are so distracted and busy right 1514 01:11:31,290 --> 01:11:28,989 now with a lot of war and different 1515 01:11:33,569 --> 01:11:31,300 things there are not enough people you 1516 01:11:35,669 --> 01:11:33,579 know in in charge in that area so it's 1517 01:11:38,250 --> 01:11:35,679 easy to just buy off you know 1518 01:11:40,169 --> 01:11:38,260 individuals they go in and this is I'm 1519 01:11:42,000 --> 01:11:40,179 glad you mentioned that because it's 1520 01:11:44,759 --> 01:11:42,010 something that I feel is an injustice 1521 01:11:46,589 --> 01:11:44,769 they go there you know they go into a 1522 01:11:49,410 --> 01:11:46,599 different culture they basically robbed 1523 01:11:52,439 --> 01:11:49,420 the culture they utilize some local help 1524 01:11:55,140 --> 01:11:52,449 and that's it they leave and that does 1525 01:11:57,089 --> 01:11:55,150 nothing for the you know so right that 1526 01:12:01,020 --> 01:11:57,099 when they went back in addition to their 1527 01:12:02,910 --> 01:12:01,030 for Iraqi colleagues they you know they 1528 01:12:05,640 --> 01:12:02,920 worked with a little bit with the State 1529 01:12:08,069 --> 01:12:05,650 Board for Antiquities and heritage so 1530 01:12:11,040 --> 01:12:08,079 but basically you've hit the nail on the 1531 01:12:12,839 --> 01:12:11,050 head it has to do with money they do 1532 01:12:14,850 --> 01:12:12,849 they they essentially buy them off now 1533 01:12:15,959 --> 01:12:14,860 you know it's not hard they don't have 1534 01:12:18,209 --> 01:12:15,969 to go there and say hey here's some 1535 01:12:21,870 --> 01:12:18,219 money stay out of our way they're doing 1536 01:12:24,419 --> 01:12:21,880 it in in the context of helping with the 1537 01:12:26,819 --> 01:12:24,429 research helping maybe you know offer 1538 01:12:30,000 --> 01:12:26,829 research opportunities to the local 1539 01:12:32,790 --> 01:12:30,010 college there but in the end yes it's 1540 01:12:35,790 --> 01:12:32,800 pretty clear it's it's unfair and unjust 1541 01:12:38,310 --> 01:12:35,800 to have foreign you know teams of 1542 01:12:40,140 --> 01:12:38,320 archaeologists come in and just take 1543 01:12:41,759 --> 01:12:40,150 what you will especially foreign 1544 01:12:43,969 --> 01:12:41,769 businesspeople you know businesses 1545 01:12:47,040 --> 01:12:43,979 coming in and just collecting the 1546 01:12:52,219 --> 01:12:47,050 imagine here we have like Jamestown 1547 01:12:55,140 --> 01:12:52,229 imagine if a some French and German 1548 01:12:58,560 --> 01:12:55,150 archaeologists were sent over via plane 1549 01:13:00,989 --> 01:12:58,570 dropped in the middle of Jamestown took 1550 01:13:03,029 --> 01:13:00,999 a bunch of artifacts you know and 1551 01:13:04,790 --> 01:13:03,039 skidaddled right on out we would be up 1552 01:13:06,839 --> 01:13:04,800 in arms 1553 01:13:09,449 --> 01:13:06,849 how are they doing 1554 01:13:11,160 --> 01:13:09,459 are they dealing with the tribal sects 1555 01:13:13,140 --> 01:13:11,170 that are controlling the region's 1556 01:13:17,189 --> 01:13:13,150 they're not actually dealing with the 1557 01:13:19,049 --> 01:13:17,199 government's themselves are they they do 1558 01:13:22,560 --> 01:13:19,059 a little of both they do deal with the 1559 01:13:25,140 --> 01:13:22,570 government on a they deal with a 1560 01:13:29,160 --> 01:13:25,150 with the government itself based just in 1561 01:13:31,230 --> 01:13:29,170 the heritage organization but they on 1562 01:13:33,210 --> 01:13:31,240 the ground they do deal with the tribes 1563 01:13:36,740 --> 01:13:33,220 because there are a lot of people that 1564 01:13:39,720 --> 01:13:36,750 come in to you know threaten take a look 1565 01:13:41,670 --> 01:13:39,730 maybe they won't work so when it when it 1566 01:13:43,110 --> 01:13:41,680 comes to getting some bodies to dig or 1567 01:13:44,270 --> 01:13:43,120 or whatever there they do deal with the 1568 01:13:46,380 --> 01:13:44,280 local tribes 1569 01:13:50,610 --> 01:13:46,390 what percentage do you think is actually 1570 01:13:54,240 --> 01:13:50,620 going to museums or yeah I mean is this 1571 01:13:56,640 --> 01:13:54,250 just going into their own into their own 1572 01:13:57,870 --> 01:13:56,650 collection I mean what's cool what's 1573 01:14:00,870 --> 01:13:57,880 going on what the majority of these 1574 01:14:02,310 --> 01:14:00,880 relics are we able to see them you know 1575 01:14:04,230 --> 01:14:02,320 because it seems to me the way that 1576 01:14:05,460 --> 01:14:04,240 you're speaking about it it seems like 1577 01:14:07,800 --> 01:14:05,470 they're just taking it all for 1578 01:14:09,060 --> 01:14:07,810 themselves and nothing is getting out so 1579 01:14:12,000 --> 01:14:09,070 that the public can see what's actually 1580 01:14:13,680 --> 01:14:12,010 going on there exactly well that that's 1581 01:14:15,030 --> 01:14:13,690 that's one of the reasons I feel that 1582 01:14:18,270 --> 01:14:15,040 it's so important to talk about these 1583 01:14:22,760 --> 01:14:18,280 things because yes it's it's it troubles 1584 01:14:26,930 --> 01:14:22,770 me that a wealthy powerful relic 1585 01:14:31,110 --> 01:14:26,940 collector is bankrolling this so yes 1586 01:14:33,840 --> 01:14:31,120 they are now I'm this is I clearly don't 1587 01:14:37,110 --> 01:14:33,850 have 100% evidence that an individual 1588 01:14:38,400 --> 01:14:37,120 has pocketed some antiquities but I feel 1589 01:14:41,700 --> 01:14:38,410 like you have to be out of your mind I 1590 01:14:46,590 --> 01:14:41,710 think that's not going on so yes I know 1591 01:14:49,500 --> 01:14:46,600 that they have released items to the 1592 01:14:51,150 --> 01:14:49,510 Baghdad Museum on occasion there's been 1593 01:14:53,190 --> 01:14:51,160 a few things once but what they do is 1594 01:14:55,230 --> 01:14:53,200 they'll take them away take them to 1595 01:14:58,140 --> 01:14:55,240 their home country take them elsewhere 1596 01:15:00,210 --> 01:14:58,150 and just to study them there they do 1597 01:15:01,770 --> 01:15:00,220 allow them to have some there that 1598 01:15:04,290 --> 01:15:01,780 they'll look at and like I said they 1599 01:15:07,350 --> 01:15:04,300 have about four iraqi researchers who 1600 01:15:09,900 --> 01:15:07,360 are looking at the you know artifacts 1601 01:15:12,180 --> 01:15:09,910 and then they'll release them but now 1602 01:15:15,720 --> 01:15:12,190 this is after they've already been jerry 1603 01:15:18,210 --> 01:15:15,730 picked so it's you know it's it's like 1604 01:15:19,890 --> 01:15:18,220 anything do we have everything that 1605 01:15:22,620 --> 01:15:19,900 they've ever found in our museums for 1606 01:15:25,620 --> 01:15:22,630 the public to enjoy no so we since we're 1607 01:15:28,680 --> 01:15:25,630 not there to see we don't know what they 1608 01:15:32,280 --> 01:15:28,690 have what they were able to you know but 1609 01:15:35,400 --> 01:15:32,290 let me just say it the numbers been 1610 01:15:36,530 --> 01:15:35,410 thrown out there that only about ten 1611 01:15:39,650 --> 01:15:36,540 percent 1612 01:15:43,450 --> 01:15:39,660 of what can be found out there has been 1613 01:15:47,330 --> 01:15:43,460 found there is another nine at least 90% 1614 01:15:49,250 --> 01:15:47,340 that has gone unfound and that's what 1615 01:15:52,580 --> 01:15:49,260 they're looking for they they feel that 1616 01:15:55,460 --> 01:15:52,590 there are so many things still to be 1617 01:15:57,710 --> 01:15:55,470 found and they're out there doing it 1618 01:16:00,170 --> 01:15:57,720 they're looking and you know what's 1619 01:16:02,420 --> 01:16:00,180 amazing also is that in that conflicted 1620 01:16:03,530 --> 01:16:02,430 region that they're able to provide 1621 01:16:05,840 --> 01:16:03,540 security 1622 01:16:07,400 --> 01:16:05,850 it kind of is I rough that with 1623 01:16:09,560 --> 01:16:07,410 everything that's going on over there 1624 01:16:10,820 --> 01:16:09,570 they can still provide the security to 1625 01:16:15,320 --> 01:16:10,830 do what they're doing on those sites 1626 01:16:16,520 --> 01:16:15,330 it's down you know yes and that's an 1627 01:16:19,400 --> 01:16:16,530 excellent point and it's interesting 1628 01:16:21,080 --> 01:16:19,410 because a couple years back or that's 1629 01:16:24,560 --> 01:16:21,090 actually been a while I posted some of 1630 01:16:27,950 --> 01:16:24,570 this on my blog they there are pictures 1631 01:16:31,010 --> 01:16:27,960 of the ziggurat er being guarded by 1632 01:16:33,080 --> 01:16:31,020 American troops and Robert Gates the 1633 01:16:36,290 --> 01:16:33,090 defense secretary at the time being 1634 01:16:38,570 --> 01:16:36,300 given a personal tour of the area and so 1635 01:16:40,850 --> 01:16:38,580 you know there have been instances where 1636 01:16:42,140 --> 01:16:40,860 you know the troops have protected the 1637 01:16:46,280 --> 01:16:42,150 sites that there's been a lot of 1638 01:16:48,500 --> 01:16:46,290 military interest and so yeah that's it 1639 01:16:50,360 --> 01:16:48,510 is really interesting that you know 1640 01:16:52,400 --> 01:16:50,370 given the turmoil in the area that they 1641 01:16:56,320 --> 01:16:52,410 even have protection but they get flown 1642 01:17:00,410 --> 01:16:56,330 in they have a sponsored network of 1643 01:17:02,090 --> 01:17:00,420 basically military you know providers to 1644 01:17:04,820 --> 01:17:02,100 come in like private military like a 1645 01:17:08,360 --> 01:17:04,830 Halliburton type no your contractors 1646 01:17:10,160 --> 01:17:08,370 thank you yes to fly them in drop them 1647 01:17:11,900 --> 01:17:10,170 off and pull them back out and again I 1648 01:17:14,390 --> 01:17:11,910 have some pictures on my site that show 1649 01:17:16,790 --> 01:17:14,400 the blurred shipping containers that 1650 01:17:19,910 --> 01:17:16,800 they drop in that are actually the bunk 1651 01:17:22,730 --> 01:17:19,920 that the bunkers for the researchers 1652 01:17:25,250 --> 01:17:22,740 they drop them in there reinforce their 1653 01:17:27,760 --> 01:17:25,260 bulletproof they drop them in pull them 1654 01:17:29,930 --> 01:17:27,770 right back out so don't thanks for the 1655 01:17:32,450 --> 01:17:29,940 phone call bill thank you maverick 1656 01:17:34,400 --> 01:17:32,460 thank you dr. Lynn a very informative 1657 01:17:36,140 --> 01:17:34,410 show and I'm loving it I'm everybody 1658 01:17:37,640 --> 01:17:36,150 else I'm sure that's listening and 1659 01:17:39,950 --> 01:17:37,650 that's in the chat room is also enjoying 1660 01:17:42,290 --> 01:17:39,960 it immensely have a great night you guys 1661 01:17:46,580 --> 01:17:42,300 you too now Heather we got another 1662 01:17:49,490 --> 01:17:46,590 caller on the line Jim are you on and 1663 01:17:50,169 --> 01:17:49,500 worrier you from okay I don't think we 1664 01:17:54,040 --> 01:17:50,179 have Jay 1665 01:17:56,319 --> 01:17:54,050 Jim if you're on the line or if we've 1666 01:17:59,560 --> 01:17:56,329 lost we lost you a thing so called back 1667 01:18:00,850 --> 01:17:59,570 on the number will get you in after we 1668 01:18:02,439 --> 01:18:00,860 go to the break so we're gonna do that 1669 01:18:04,299 --> 01:18:02,449 now Heather will go ahead and go to 1670 01:18:07,029 --> 01:18:04,309 break and Jim if you're listening call 1671 01:18:09,429 --> 01:18:07,039 back we'll get you on the on the arrow 1672 01:18:11,410 --> 01:18:09,439 as we picked up right here back with our 1673 01:18:13,120 --> 01:18:11,420 special guest dr. heather Lynn on the 1674 01:18:17,290 --> 01:18:13,130 Cimmerian controversy right here on 1675 01:18:19,600 --> 01:18:17,300 HIPPA cages radio and we're back here on 1676 01:18:22,479 --> 01:18:19,610 that big voices radio with our special 1677 01:18:24,609 --> 01:18:22,489 guest dr. heather Lynn talking about the 1678 01:18:28,989 --> 01:18:24,619 Cimmerian controversy at a special 1679 01:18:31,330 --> 01:18:28,999 report one last half-hour with dr. 1680 01:18:33,729 --> 01:18:31,340 heather Lynn be sure to call in with 1681 01:18:36,279 --> 01:18:33,739 your questions or comments to the show 1682 01:18:39,189 --> 01:18:36,289 we're live tonight at one triple eight 1683 01:18:41,739 --> 01:18:39,199 nine one nine two three five five one 1684 01:18:44,919 --> 01:18:41,749 triple eight nine one nine two three 1685 01:18:46,870 --> 01:18:44,929 five five now if you're listening to the 1686 01:18:50,799 --> 01:18:46,880 show on the darknet or radio network on 1687 01:18:53,169 --> 01:18:50,809 friday night this will be a Riera so 1688 01:18:55,479 --> 01:18:53,179 don't call them with your question that 1689 01:19:02,049 --> 01:18:55,489 we do reorder the show on dark matter on 1690 01:19:05,370 --> 01:19:02,059 Friday night so we have Jim impact Jim 1691 01:19:09,370 --> 01:19:05,380 are you back on and we're calling from 1692 01:19:12,009 --> 01:19:09,380 Jim are you back on the air we just lost 1693 01:19:15,009 --> 01:19:12,019 Jim again okay I don't know why but 1694 01:19:20,339 --> 01:19:15,019 somehow we lost him so all right well 1695 01:19:22,449 --> 01:19:20,349 Jim call back if you can so Heather were 1696 01:19:25,649 --> 01:19:22,459 you know we're talking about this 1697 01:19:27,549 --> 01:19:25,659 connection and how it all goes back to 1698 01:19:31,179 --> 01:19:27,559 to what you're saying is these 1699 01:19:33,729 --> 01:19:31,189 bloodlines and big oil what's the take 1700 01:19:36,699 --> 01:19:33,739 away on all this do we know just yet 1701 01:19:37,390 --> 01:19:36,709 what's what's the thing that we need to 1702 01:19:39,429 --> 01:19:37,400 know about it 1703 01:19:44,770 --> 01:19:39,439 the big thing that we need to know is 1704 01:19:46,660 --> 01:19:44,780 that there is a lot of money flowing and 1705 01:19:49,239 --> 01:19:46,670 a lot of people going to the Middle East 1706 01:19:50,620 --> 01:19:49,249 to look for something and that is what 1707 01:19:52,750 --> 01:19:50,630 we don't know and there are a lot of 1708 01:19:55,839 --> 01:19:52,760 clues as to what that could be and a lot 1709 01:19:59,080 --> 01:19:55,849 of people have ideas and so this is 1710 01:20:00,189 --> 01:19:59,090 interesting because you know I we don't 1711 01:20:02,199 --> 01:20:00,199 know what's in their head right now 1712 01:20:04,179 --> 01:20:02,209 there is a lot of evidence but it's one 1713 01:20:06,669 --> 01:20:04,189 of those things where 1714 01:20:08,229 --> 01:20:06,679 when I put the call out hey what are 1715 01:20:09,729 --> 01:20:08,239 your thoughts what do you think they're 1716 01:20:12,839 --> 01:20:09,739 looking for let's look at this evidence 1717 01:20:16,000 --> 01:20:12,849 together let's do this in a public forum 1718 01:20:17,949 --> 01:20:16,010 because I've reached out to the people 1719 01:20:21,339 --> 01:20:17,959 doing this they will not speak publicly 1720 01:20:22,810 --> 01:20:21,349 what they've done is now that they know 1721 01:20:24,929 --> 01:20:22,820 there's a public interest they've slowly 1722 01:20:27,849 --> 01:20:24,939 been putting some information out there 1723 01:20:29,949 --> 01:20:27,859 that's been very much whitewashed and 1724 01:20:32,739 --> 01:20:29,959 kind of oh look we're digging around now 1725 01:20:35,589 --> 01:20:32,749 yeah and it but they don't they don't 1726 01:20:36,909 --> 01:20:35,599 say anything substantial and they 1727 01:20:39,219 --> 01:20:36,919 certainly aren't putting out the kind of 1728 01:20:41,199 --> 01:20:39,229 information that we really need so it's 1729 01:20:42,790 --> 01:20:41,209 really hard to get a hold of their their 1730 01:20:44,709 --> 01:20:42,800 reports it's really hard to get a hold 1731 01:20:47,409 --> 01:20:44,719 of their information and that's wrong so 1732 01:20:49,719 --> 01:20:47,419 the takeaway is this we're still looking 1733 01:20:54,369 --> 01:20:49,729 and in land of the Watchers I have found 1734 01:20:58,060 --> 01:20:54,379 a handful of theories that are very 1735 01:21:01,359 --> 01:20:58,070 workable I've I've gotten help from not 1736 01:21:04,389 --> 01:21:01,369 just viewers or listeners or readers but 1737 01:21:06,879 --> 01:21:04,399 experts in the field some of my friends 1738 01:21:09,549 --> 01:21:06,889 colleagues and other people who I ended 1739 01:21:12,969 --> 01:21:09,559 up meeting based on his research for 1740 01:21:18,060 --> 01:21:12,979 instance I had an economist contact me 1741 01:21:20,829 --> 01:21:18,070 with some information about ancient 1742 01:21:23,079 --> 01:21:20,839 economic technology if you will of it so 1743 01:21:24,879 --> 01:21:23,089 not ancient technology in the sense that 1744 01:21:26,199 --> 01:21:24,889 oh they found free energy which is 1745 01:21:30,399 --> 01:21:26,209 another idea that's been kicked around 1746 01:21:32,469 --> 01:21:30,409 but technology in the sense that there 1747 01:21:35,290 --> 01:21:32,479 were different economic systems or 1748 01:21:38,139 --> 01:21:35,300 different ways to you know control money 1749 01:21:42,159 --> 01:21:38,149 or people or what-have-you and that the 1750 01:21:45,040 --> 01:21:42,169 Sumerians knew that perhaps figures like 1751 01:21:46,929 --> 01:21:45,050 Anunnaki did that they could maybe 1752 01:21:50,500 --> 01:21:46,939 implement now I mean we're talking a 1753 01:21:52,359 --> 01:21:50,510 whole host of ideas and so what I do in 1754 01:21:54,759 --> 01:21:52,369 land of the Watchers is I kind of take a 1755 01:21:59,290 --> 01:21:54,769 look at these ideas I put them out I 1756 01:22:01,869 --> 01:21:59,300 give each theory its own consideration 1757 01:22:04,060 --> 01:22:01,879 even some of the most what people would 1758 01:22:05,649 --> 01:22:04,070 consider outlandish theories and I look 1759 01:22:07,629 --> 01:22:05,659 at the facts and I look at the evidence 1760 01:22:09,459 --> 01:22:07,639 and I say okay what do we know and what 1761 01:22:11,560 --> 01:22:09,469 do we know from the new excavations 1762 01:22:13,989 --> 01:22:11,570 because again they just wrapped up in 1763 01:22:16,449 --> 01:22:13,999 May and they found a lot more so what 1764 01:22:17,120 --> 01:22:16,459 are you know I think we have a gem back 1765 01:22:19,479 --> 01:22:17,130 on the air 1766 01:22:24,040 --> 01:22:19,489 Jim are you there now are you on there 1767 01:22:27,410 --> 01:22:24,050 okay yes I am I'm here hi gentlemen room 1768 01:22:33,200 --> 01:22:27,420 I'm calling from Ames Iowa how are you 1769 01:22:35,360 --> 01:22:33,210 guys doing great oh I was just listening 1770 01:22:39,050 --> 01:22:35,370 and in the chat room they've been going 1771 01:22:42,260 --> 01:22:39,060 crazy with but where all this stuff is 1772 01:22:44,840 --> 01:22:42,270 being taken away - and what we're losing 1773 01:22:47,990 --> 01:22:44,850 an hour Erika Jamal that all the it's 1774 01:22:50,810 --> 01:22:48,000 enraging as long as I hear and Big Oil 1775 01:22:53,899 --> 01:22:50,820 taking over these universities and 1776 01:22:55,790 --> 01:22:53,909 taking away the big sites you know 1777 01:22:58,580 --> 01:22:55,800 taking away the information that's 1778 01:23:01,490 --> 01:22:58,590 gathered from these big sites it's kind 1779 01:23:05,479 --> 01:23:01,500 of enraging to me what are we gonna do 1780 01:23:10,459 --> 01:23:05,489 to take it back what can we do to get 1781 01:23:14,570 --> 01:23:10,469 this stuff back so that the public can 1782 01:23:16,399 --> 01:23:14,580 get it and see it and realize that we've 1783 01:23:20,300 --> 01:23:16,409 been digging for it out there what can 1784 01:23:23,600 --> 01:23:20,310 we do I think that's an excellent 1785 01:23:26,360 --> 01:23:23,610 question because you know it is easy to 1786 01:23:29,750 --> 01:23:26,370 feel powerless thank you Jim it is very 1787 01:23:32,600 --> 01:23:29,760 easy to feel powerless in these 1788 01:23:35,120 --> 01:23:32,610 situations and a stripping a nation of 1789 01:23:38,750 --> 01:23:35,130 its cultural material robs it of its 1790 01:23:41,780 --> 01:23:38,760 identity and without its identity social 1791 01:23:44,660 --> 01:23:41,790 cohesion will dissolve and people are 1792 01:23:46,669 --> 01:23:44,670 more easily homogenizing controlled so 1793 01:23:49,430 --> 01:23:46,679 it's not only important for human 1794 01:23:52,370 --> 01:23:49,440 identity but this it's it's it's 1795 01:23:55,070 --> 01:23:52,380 imperative for social cohesion this is 1796 01:23:59,060 --> 01:23:55,080 talking about like a breakdown a 1797 01:24:01,370 --> 01:23:59,070 breakdown in society and that's part of 1798 01:24:04,939 --> 01:24:01,380 you know what happens when these people 1799 01:24:07,340 --> 01:24:04,949 go in into and already you know troubled 1800 01:24:09,979 --> 01:24:07,350 society and they robbed it of its 1801 01:24:12,890 --> 01:24:09,989 cultural identity it is it is a disaster 1802 01:24:14,870 --> 01:24:12,900 but you know when you feel like you have 1803 01:24:18,050 --> 01:24:14,880 no power you know when those thoughts 1804 01:24:20,689 --> 01:24:18,060 creep in as they've been programmed to 1805 01:24:22,610 --> 01:24:20,699 do you know you have to fight it you 1806 01:24:25,550 --> 01:24:22,620 have to tell yourself that you do have 1807 01:24:29,300 --> 01:24:25,560 the power you in in Galileo said this 1808 01:24:30,979 --> 01:24:29,310 all truths are easy to understand once 1809 01:24:33,800 --> 01:24:30,989 they are discovered 1810 01:24:36,229 --> 01:24:33,810 the point is to discover them so 1811 01:24:37,790 --> 01:24:36,239 discovery is a necessary part of 1812 01:24:41,150 --> 01:24:37,800 understanding this truth so what we need 1813 01:24:44,930 --> 01:24:41,160 to do is keep the dialogue open going 1814 01:24:47,870 --> 01:24:44,940 public and loud and I've already seen 1815 01:24:50,450 --> 01:24:47,880 just in a year a response from that 1816 01:24:53,570 --> 01:24:50,460 other side so we have to make them 1817 01:24:56,110 --> 01:24:53,580 answer us we have to be loud and not let 1818 01:25:01,430 --> 01:24:56,120 us go that's what we can do 1819 01:25:05,720 --> 01:25:01,440 well my voice in there with you I I 1820 01:25:08,660 --> 01:25:05,730 remember hearing about people going in 1821 01:25:11,630 --> 01:25:08,670 and starting with archeological digs and 1822 01:25:13,970 --> 01:25:11,640 like my bill was saying earlier they 1823 01:25:18,670 --> 01:25:13,980 would literally have to hire an army to 1824 01:25:22,580 --> 01:25:18,680 protect the site because it wasn't just 1825 01:25:24,770 --> 01:25:22,590 outside agencies coming in and robbing 1826 01:25:26,180 --> 01:25:24,780 the site it was the people coming in and 1827 01:25:30,170 --> 01:25:26,190 robbing their own site 1828 01:25:34,040 --> 01:25:30,180 yeah selling off their own heritage to 1829 01:25:37,040 --> 01:25:34,050 make money because the almighty dollar 1830 01:25:39,520 --> 01:25:37,050 or whatever they use for currency over 1831 01:25:42,640 --> 01:25:39,530 there is more important to them because 1832 01:25:45,200 --> 01:25:42,650 when they're starving to death yes I 1833 01:25:48,560 --> 01:25:45,210 mean so as soon as we turn up something 1834 01:25:51,860 --> 01:25:48,570 that's valuable they start digging it up 1835 01:25:54,140 --> 01:25:51,870 too and and selling it off as and even 1836 01:25:57,620 --> 01:25:54,150 though it's illegal in most in most 1837 01:25:59,600 --> 01:25:57,630 countries to sell artifacts they have a 1838 01:26:01,490 --> 01:25:59,610 black market so there's not a problem 1839 01:26:04,640 --> 01:26:01,500 with getting artifacts out of the 1840 01:26:07,760 --> 01:26:04,650 country and this this family this 1841 01:26:09,650 --> 01:26:07,770 fencing family probably has one black 1842 01:26:14,330 --> 01:26:09,660 market artifacts than any of them in the 1843 01:26:16,520 --> 01:26:14,340 world yeah yeah yeah yes they do what 1844 01:26:18,740 --> 01:26:16,530 happens to happen and it's not gonna 1845 01:26:23,620 --> 01:26:18,750 happen I don't see it happening in the 1846 01:26:26,630 --> 01:26:23,630 near future is these countries that are 1847 01:26:29,450 --> 01:26:26,640 you know basically monarchies where the 1848 01:26:31,310 --> 01:26:29,460 where the leadership is stripping their 1849 01:26:34,880 --> 01:26:31,320 own country and selling it off bit by 1850 01:26:37,729 --> 01:26:34,890 bit what needs to happen is for those 1851 01:26:39,740 --> 01:26:37,739 people need removed from power but you 1852 01:26:44,330 --> 01:26:39,750 know who's going to do that that's the 1853 01:26:47,690 --> 01:26:44,340 next question and there 1854 01:26:49,760 --> 01:26:47,700 left unprotected I mean and and when we 1855 01:26:52,040 --> 01:26:49,770 come in and we want to do our key 1856 01:26:54,290 --> 01:26:52,050 illogical digs there and the government 1857 01:26:56,530 --> 01:26:54,300 lets us in with open arms and then the 1858 01:26:58,880 --> 01:26:56,540 next thing you know we've got got 1859 01:27:00,800 --> 01:26:58,890 pirates coming and taking over the side 1860 01:27:04,490 --> 01:27:00,810 shooting archaeologists and stuff like 1861 01:27:06,560 --> 01:27:04,500 that that and it's crazy I mean it you 1862 01:27:11,120 --> 01:27:06,570 know it it's to the point where I'm glad 1863 01:27:12,500 --> 01:27:11,130 I didn't go for my doctorate thanks for 1864 01:27:14,960 --> 01:27:12,510 the call tonight thank you so much for 1865 01:27:18,350 --> 01:27:14,970 calling in thanks - all right thank you 1866 01:27:19,940 --> 01:27:18,360 all right I was kind of you know he's 1867 01:27:23,390 --> 01:27:19,950 kind of got a point there Heather that 1868 01:27:25,790 --> 01:27:23,400 you know there's a big uphill battle you 1869 01:27:27,710 --> 01:27:25,800 know anytime you find something you know 1870 01:27:30,350 --> 01:27:27,720 if it's outside that mainstream 1871 01:27:32,480 --> 01:27:30,360 archaeology and you go public with it 1872 01:27:34,550 --> 01:27:32,490 man you're gonna get hammered but then 1873 01:27:38,330 --> 01:27:34,560 it's another thing to cover the thing up 1874 01:27:41,420 --> 01:27:38,340 or to have mysterious you know artifacts 1875 01:27:43,910 --> 01:27:41,430 missing from a newly Archy you know a 1876 01:27:47,830 --> 01:27:43,920 new archaeological site and a new dig 1877 01:27:50,450 --> 01:27:47,840 and those artifacts are gone 1878 01:27:51,380 --> 01:27:50,460 that doesn't happen these things get 1879 01:27:54,680 --> 01:27:51,390 cataloged 1880 01:27:59,090 --> 01:27:54,690 there there's a process of information 1881 01:28:02,090 --> 01:27:59,100 that you know there's there's a custody 1882 01:28:05,360 --> 01:28:02,100 of these artifacts artifacts just don't 1883 01:28:09,350 --> 01:28:05,370 up and disappear unless somebody's got a 1884 01:28:12,890 --> 01:28:09,360 lot of power to do that and and there's 1885 01:28:15,530 --> 01:28:12,900 got to be a motive to hide artifacts and 1886 01:28:18,050 --> 01:28:15,540 information there's a lot of information 1887 01:28:20,930 --> 01:28:18,060 that's buried in basements that the 1888 01:28:22,580 --> 01:28:20,940 public will never see and these you know 1889 01:28:25,370 --> 01:28:22,590 I'm afraid that these tablets are going 1890 01:28:28,490 --> 01:28:25,380 to be gone never to see the light of day 1891 01:28:33,890 --> 01:28:28,500 again and it's it's interesting because 1892 01:28:35,720 --> 01:28:33,900 you're right people can you know people 1893 01:28:38,720 --> 01:28:35,730 need to be discussing this information 1894 01:28:40,610 --> 01:28:38,730 it needs to be on the table and what we 1895 01:28:44,870 --> 01:28:40,620 find out we need to be able to ask 1896 01:28:47,150 --> 01:28:44,880 questions we need to be able to vet the 1897 01:28:50,270 --> 01:28:47,160 information we need to be able to to 1898 01:28:52,700 --> 01:28:50,280 ponder the information and look we don't 1899 01:28:55,250 --> 01:28:52,710 have all the answers but at least get 1900 01:28:57,790 --> 01:28:55,260 the thing out in the light where it can 1901 01:29:01,330 --> 01:28:57,800 be examined and even if it cross 1902 01:29:03,730 --> 01:29:01,340 is the grain of what we know that should 1903 01:29:08,020 --> 01:29:03,740 be okay but in a lot of cases it's not 1904 01:29:11,080 --> 01:29:08,030 because well after all there are you 1905 01:29:13,330 --> 01:29:11,090 know ulterior motives out there aren't 1906 01:29:15,970 --> 01:29:13,340 there and maybe that's what's going on 1907 01:29:19,690 --> 01:29:15,980 here especially with these big companies 1908 01:29:21,810 --> 01:29:19,700 that are involved that's quite 1909 01:29:24,610 --> 01:29:21,820 interesting it is and you know it 1910 01:29:28,090 --> 01:29:24,620 another thing and this is just a quick 1911 01:29:30,370 --> 01:29:28,100 little statistic here a point on Africa 1912 01:29:33,400 --> 01:29:30,380 and in the context of see you know Egypt 1913 01:29:35,500 --> 01:29:33,410 or or what have you but the African 1914 01:29:37,630 --> 01:29:35,510 continent the cultural moment this is 1915 01:29:40,390 --> 01:29:37,640 according to UNESCO the cultural 1916 01:29:44,680 --> 01:29:40,400 material that is currently out of Africa 1917 01:29:47,800 --> 01:29:44,690 is 90 percent so 90 percent and that's 1918 01:29:50,620 --> 01:29:47,810 the entire continent the giant continent 1919 01:29:53,980 --> 01:29:50,630 of Africa which contains many many many 1920 01:29:56,680 --> 01:29:53,990 many countries and 90 percent of the 1921 01:29:58,720 --> 01:29:56,690 known cultural material is gone from the 1922 01:30:01,270 --> 01:29:58,730 continent and has been put out on 1923 01:30:02,490 --> 01:30:01,280 lucrative Western markets has ended up 1924 01:30:06,280 --> 01:30:02,500 in museums and private collections 1925 01:30:10,120 --> 01:30:06,290 everywhere except in Africa ninety 1926 01:30:12,430 --> 01:30:10,130 percent so that that's a so who knows 1927 01:30:14,410 --> 01:30:12,440 what they're going to find and and and 1928 01:30:16,570 --> 01:30:14,420 what we're gonna be able to see we'll 1929 01:30:19,180 --> 01:30:16,580 get the little you know benign tablets 1930 01:30:21,160 --> 01:30:19,190 that say you know this person sold grain 1931 01:30:23,470 --> 01:30:21,170 to that person oh look what we learned 1932 01:30:27,640 --> 01:30:23,480 about the Sumerians but in the meantime 1933 01:30:30,640 --> 01:30:27,650 in a mansion elsewhere in you know where 1934 01:30:32,560 --> 01:30:30,650 what kind of display is going on what 1935 01:30:35,560 --> 01:30:32,570 kind of you know and another thing that 1936 01:30:38,830 --> 01:30:35,570 is interesting we talk about public 1937 01:30:42,870 --> 01:30:38,840 knowledge and and publishing stuff the 1938 01:30:44,230 --> 01:30:42,880 the state of American archaeology is so 1939 01:30:48,070 --> 01:30:44,240 fragile 1940 01:30:50,590 --> 01:30:48,080 it's just crumbling due to the core 1941 01:30:52,450 --> 01:30:50,600 photography as well and and I'm sure 1942 01:30:54,850 --> 01:30:52,460 you're familiar with the term cultural 1943 01:30:57,550 --> 01:30:54,860 resource management the nice sterile 1944 01:30:59,710 --> 01:30:57,560 form of archaeology that we have here 1945 01:31:02,610 --> 01:30:59,720 well you know so many private 1946 01:31:06,220 --> 01:31:02,620 archaeological firms they end up having 1947 01:31:09,010 --> 01:31:06,230 you know what they call grey papers and 1948 01:31:11,010 --> 01:31:09,020 papers that just they they find stuff 1949 01:31:12,780 --> 01:31:11,020 they put it away 1950 01:31:15,930 --> 01:31:12,790 because it's not really their job to 1951 01:31:19,470 --> 01:31:15,940 inquire or to learn or to build it's - 1952 01:31:22,320 --> 01:31:19,480 you know excavate to comply with laws 1953 01:31:24,450 --> 01:31:22,330 and construction sites they do the 1954 01:31:27,390 --> 01:31:24,460 obligatory you know paper on it and it 1955 01:31:29,370 --> 01:31:27,400 goes away and it stays hid in a lot of 1956 01:31:32,580 --> 01:31:29,380 times not all places because I know a 1957 01:31:35,640 --> 01:31:32,590 couple people who have their own CMR you 1958 01:31:37,350 --> 01:31:35,650 know private companies that do great 1959 01:31:39,600 --> 01:31:37,360 things with the public and they put that 1960 01:31:42,660 --> 01:31:39,610 information out and it's wonderful but 1961 01:31:44,250 --> 01:31:42,670 it's not a universal these are private 1962 01:31:46,680 --> 01:31:44,260 companies who are out to make money 1963 01:31:48,870 --> 01:31:46,690 they're number one forces to make money 1964 01:31:50,940 --> 01:31:48,880 not necessarily research for the 1965 01:31:52,500 --> 01:31:50,950 betterment of humanity so that's another 1966 01:31:54,360 --> 01:31:52,510 player that we have that's kind of in 1967 01:31:57,140 --> 01:31:54,370 the mix here when we talk about the 1968 01:32:00,060 --> 01:31:57,150 understanding and appreciation of 1969 01:32:03,590 --> 01:32:00,070 history the historical narrative when it 1970 01:32:07,950 --> 01:32:03,600 comes to you know the public and the 1971 01:32:10,290 --> 01:32:07,960 important what Michael Cremo who is a 1972 01:32:12,870 --> 01:32:10,300 great you know researcher in some of 1973 01:32:16,170 --> 01:32:12,880 these alternative fields what he refers 1974 01:32:17,730 --> 01:32:16,180 to as the knowledge filter you know so I 1975 01:32:22,830 --> 01:32:17,740 think that's something important to 1976 01:32:25,100 --> 01:32:22,840 consider yes okay well you know you've 1977 01:32:28,350 --> 01:32:25,110 done a lot of work and a lot of writing 1978 01:32:30,990 --> 01:32:28,360 you got your new book coming out the 1979 01:32:32,730 --> 01:32:31,000 land of the Watchers what current 1980 01:32:34,470 --> 01:32:32,740 projects are you working on now other 1981 01:32:37,470 --> 01:32:34,480 than that are you in the field anywhere 1982 01:32:41,790 --> 01:32:37,480 are you writing a material what what are 1983 01:32:44,460 --> 01:32:41,800 your current projects I am here and 1984 01:32:47,370 --> 01:32:44,470 there I do some field work locally I've 1985 01:32:51,300 --> 01:32:47,380 been looking into some different Native 1986 01:32:54,120 --> 01:32:51,310 American sites some actually pre-clovis 1987 01:32:55,980 --> 01:32:54,130 sites and some which you know there's 1988 01:32:57,960 --> 01:32:55,990 there's controversy over the whole 1989 01:33:01,230 --> 01:32:57,970 Clovis idea and pre-clovis and whatnot 1990 01:33:04,170 --> 01:33:01,240 but you know basically looking at some 1991 01:33:05,400 --> 01:33:04,180 prehistoric settlements and you know 1992 01:33:07,050 --> 01:33:05,410 some forts and some different things 1993 01:33:07,680 --> 01:33:07,060 locally here in the great Great Lakes 1994 01:33:09,930 --> 01:33:07,690 region 1995 01:33:11,930 --> 01:33:09,940 so you know I'm looking I'm do I do a 1996 01:33:15,360 --> 01:33:11,940 little work here do a little work there 1997 01:33:19,650 --> 01:33:15,370 but my purse my my personal projects 1998 01:33:21,120 --> 01:33:19,660 here that I'm really focused on is a you 1999 01:33:22,590 --> 01:33:21,130 know land of the Watchers it's an edits 2000 01:33:24,820 --> 01:33:22,600 right now it's going to be available 2001 01:33:26,950 --> 01:33:24,830 this December 2002 01:33:29,380 --> 01:33:26,960 the first two chapters will be available 2003 01:33:30,970 --> 01:33:29,390 for free on my website starting in 2004 01:33:34,540 --> 01:33:30,980 around october/november 2005 01:33:37,150 --> 01:33:34,550 and so that should be good fun I have a 2006 01:33:39,340 --> 01:33:37,160 lot of contributors to land of the 2007 01:33:40,630 --> 01:33:39,350 Watchers and you know a lot more 2008 01:33:42,880 --> 01:33:40,640 information has been published like I 2009 01:33:46,810 --> 01:33:42,890 said I initially put out Sumerian 2010 01:33:49,870 --> 01:33:46,820 controversy as a as a report and this 2011 01:33:52,450 --> 01:33:49,880 ended up being a full sized pretty large 2012 01:33:54,820 --> 01:33:52,460 book that it just took on a life of its 2013 01:33:56,170 --> 01:33:54,830 own so so that that's in the works but 2014 01:33:58,590 --> 01:33:56,180 now that that's sort of out of the way 2015 01:34:00,880 --> 01:33:58,600 for now because it's still a developing 2016 01:34:03,310 --> 01:34:00,890 story I'm still following that story 2017 01:34:06,790 --> 01:34:03,320 because they do intend to go back this 2018 01:34:09,580 --> 01:34:06,800 coming field season I am in the meantime 2019 01:34:14,470 --> 01:34:09,590 I'm working on my next book called evil 2020 01:34:16,930 --> 01:34:14,480 archaeology that yeah that that one's 2021 01:34:18,550 --> 01:34:16,940 been a real interesting adventure it's 2022 01:34:21,520 --> 01:34:18,560 been a little scary actually I don't 2023 01:34:23,560 --> 01:34:21,530 scare easily but this one yeah I've had 2024 01:34:28,030 --> 01:34:23,570 some scary moments this I have been 2025 01:34:31,110 --> 01:34:28,040 looking into basically the archaeology 2026 01:34:33,900 --> 01:34:31,120 the archaeology of demons 2027 01:34:37,990 --> 01:34:33,910 archaeological evidence and history of 2028 01:34:42,430 --> 01:34:38,000 demons haunted relics that kind of thing 2029 01:34:44,620 --> 01:34:42,440 so it's it's more of a look at you know 2030 01:34:46,630 --> 01:34:44,630 where did all the you know there's so 2031 01:34:49,000 --> 01:34:46,640 many demons every every culture has a 2032 01:34:52,600 --> 01:34:49,010 type of demon there's the you know the 2033 01:34:55,450 --> 01:34:52,610 jinn you know regular just the Christian 2034 01:34:57,970 --> 01:34:55,460 demons there's there's every religion 2035 01:35:01,840 --> 01:34:57,980 has their type you know and even the 2036 01:35:04,030 --> 01:35:01,850 Christian demons a lot of them have the 2037 01:35:06,640 --> 01:35:04,040 names that they have originated from 2038 01:35:08,560 --> 01:35:06,650 ancient Babylonian gods and in writing 2039 01:35:12,220 --> 01:35:08,570 sounds going to ask you about that 2040 01:35:15,990 --> 01:35:12,230 because there is a huge tie between 2041 01:35:19,300 --> 01:35:16,000 those names and those demonic entities 2042 01:35:21,940 --> 01:35:19,310 let me ask you this do you think that 2043 01:35:23,560 --> 01:35:21,950 all falls back into the name of your 2044 01:35:25,390 --> 01:35:23,570 book actually the one that you're 2045 01:35:27,400 --> 01:35:25,400 working on now to this to the follow up 2046 01:35:30,190 --> 01:35:27,410 is the land of the Watchers and you know 2047 01:35:32,050 --> 01:35:30,200 what the watchers are you know it's 2048 01:35:36,550 --> 01:35:32,060 interesting that you name your book the 2049 01:35:38,679 --> 01:35:36,560 land of the Watchers because these all I 2050 01:35:41,679 --> 01:35:38,689 think tie-in back to 2051 01:35:44,229 --> 01:35:41,689 those original Watchers that came down 2052 01:35:47,529 --> 01:35:44,239 on mountain Hermon and intervened and a 2053 01:35:49,779 --> 01:35:47,539 man kindness Affairs way way back in the 2054 01:35:52,299 --> 01:35:49,789 beginning and those were those two 2055 01:35:55,179 --> 01:35:52,309 hundred watcher angels what do you think 2056 01:35:57,969 --> 01:35:55,189 about those Watchers are they related to 2057 01:36:03,310 --> 01:35:57,979 all the benevolence going on behind the 2058 01:36:04,810 --> 01:36:03,320 scenes well I I don't know I can't say 2059 01:36:07,390 --> 01:36:04,820 for certain because it's one of those 2060 01:36:11,439 --> 01:36:07,400 sort of unseen things and I tend to look 2061 01:36:13,359 --> 01:36:11,449 at the more tangible you know evidence 2062 01:36:16,029 --> 01:36:13,369 that could be before me but I wouldn't 2063 01:36:18,580 --> 01:36:16,039 rule anything out I think that there are 2064 01:36:21,580 --> 01:36:18,590 a lot of unseen forces in the world 2065 01:36:24,279 --> 01:36:21,590 today and most of them not so positive 2066 01:36:26,560 --> 01:36:24,289 to say the least so and they're my 2067 01:36:28,629 --> 01:36:26,570 that's why you're working on your book I 2068 01:36:29,199 --> 01:36:28,639 mean evil archaeology isn't that what 2069 01:36:32,649 --> 01:36:29,209 that's about 2070 01:36:36,310 --> 01:36:32,659 the oh yeah artifacts connected to those 2071 01:36:40,449 --> 01:36:36,320 entities and how you know they can 2072 01:36:42,459 --> 01:36:40,459 possess objects things it's that's 2073 01:36:44,319 --> 01:36:42,469 you're right that is a little creepy 2074 01:36:47,199 --> 01:36:44,329 it's a little creepy you know we've all 2075 01:36:49,149 --> 01:36:47,209 heard the stories of the the Mummy's 2076 01:36:52,409 --> 01:36:49,159 curse and all these little things that 2077 01:36:55,419 --> 01:36:52,419 come about from stories of the 2078 01:36:57,040 --> 01:36:55,429 archaeologists who stumble upon so I 2079 01:36:59,560 --> 01:36:57,050 guess for lack of better term 2080 01:37:01,600 --> 01:36:59,570 demonically possessed objects and and 2081 01:37:03,279 --> 01:37:01,610 because of that there's curses or they 2082 01:37:05,169 --> 01:37:03,289 unleash an evil on the world or 2083 01:37:08,069 --> 01:37:05,179 something to that effect there's stories 2084 01:37:11,199 --> 01:37:08,079 of that going back even in history of 2085 01:37:14,080 --> 01:37:11,209 objects being found or cursed objects 2086 01:37:18,520 --> 01:37:14,090 and so my question and then this is you 2087 01:37:21,759 --> 01:37:18,530 know what can artifacts hold some kind 2088 01:37:23,649 --> 01:37:21,769 of a force that way it is that even 2089 01:37:26,589 --> 01:37:23,659 possible and what's the evidence is 2090 01:37:27,939 --> 01:37:26,599 there any evidence and where do we get 2091 01:37:29,620 --> 01:37:27,949 all these demon names I mean I have a 2092 01:37:32,040 --> 01:37:29,630 lot of in this I've had to do a lot of 2093 01:37:34,649 --> 01:37:32,050 research on demonology I've interviewed 2094 01:37:38,169 --> 01:37:34,659 exorcists who will appear in my book and 2095 01:37:39,299 --> 01:37:38,179 their take on you know when they've done 2096 01:37:41,739 --> 01:37:39,309 exorcisms 2097 01:37:44,350 --> 01:37:41,749 what was the connect it was there any 2098 01:37:46,569 --> 01:37:44,360 sort of talisman that they might have 2099 01:37:48,819 --> 01:37:46,579 felt brought that demonic you know force 2100 01:37:52,270 --> 01:37:48,829 into the life of whomever was they had 2101 01:37:54,820 --> 01:37:52,280 to exercise so you know that's something 2102 01:37:57,190 --> 01:37:54,830 that whole idea of demonic possession or 2103 01:38:00,160 --> 01:37:57,200 demons and being associated with a thing 2104 01:38:03,880 --> 01:38:00,170 an object whether it's a maybe a Ouija 2105 01:38:06,220 --> 01:38:03,890 board or you know of frightening relic 2106 01:38:08,590 --> 01:38:06,230 or something like that I just look at 2107 01:38:10,210 --> 01:38:08,600 the question of can those physical 2108 01:38:13,270 --> 01:38:10,220 things actually carry a demonic presence 2109 01:38:15,520 --> 01:38:13,280 and what are demons and what's the 2110 01:38:17,380 --> 01:38:15,530 history of those as we can understand it 2111 01:38:18,910 --> 01:38:17,390 through the archaeological record you 2112 01:38:22,150 --> 01:38:18,920 know Heather that sounds like a great 2113 01:38:23,950 --> 01:38:22,160 Halloween show would you want to come 2114 01:38:26,710 --> 01:38:23,960 back next month for a Halloween special 2115 01:38:29,140 --> 01:38:26,720 and talk about that I sure would but 2116 01:38:33,610 --> 01:38:29,150 I'll have to warn you it might be really 2117 01:38:36,880 --> 01:38:33,620 scary that's what we want we want to we 2118 01:38:39,700 --> 01:38:36,890 want that so okay guys if you're if you 2119 01:38:43,150 --> 01:38:39,710 who like dr. heather Lynn on this 2120 01:38:44,680 --> 01:38:43,160 broadcast here on epic you heard it 2121 01:38:45,550 --> 01:38:44,690 she's gonna come back next month for a 2122 01:38:47,800 --> 01:38:45,560 Halloween special 2123 01:38:50,800 --> 01:38:47,810 so okay sounds like a done deal so I'm 2124 01:38:53,560 --> 01:38:50,810 gonna I'm going to I'm gonna pitch you 2125 01:38:56,140 --> 01:38:53,570 in for the Halloween special on epic 2126 01:38:59,130 --> 01:38:56,150 we're gonna talk about this and I know 2127 01:39:01,390 --> 01:38:59,140 it's a work in progress but Wow 2128 01:39:03,610 --> 01:39:01,400 fascinating I think our listeners are 2129 01:39:06,520 --> 01:39:03,620 gonna really really like it and I know 2130 01:39:10,000 --> 01:39:06,530 I'm gonna look forward to that show when 2131 01:39:13,210 --> 01:39:10,010 I come back on the air next month as of 2132 01:39:17,950 --> 01:39:13,220 course we host our show every Monday 2133 01:39:22,510 --> 01:39:17,960 with alternating guest hosts and so I 2134 01:39:24,730 --> 01:39:22,520 will be back in October at the end of 2135 01:39:26,980 --> 01:39:24,740 October and we'll be back on I guess 2136 01:39:28,420 --> 01:39:26,990 with dr. heather Lynn and evil 2137 01:39:32,620 --> 01:39:28,430 archaeology Wow 2138 01:39:34,210 --> 01:39:32,630 fascinating okay Heather tell people how 2139 01:39:35,740 --> 01:39:34,220 they can get involved in your research 2140 01:39:39,670 --> 01:39:35,750 if they want to help you out in some way 2141 01:39:42,400 --> 01:39:39,680 how to contact you tell us a little bit 2142 01:39:46,570 --> 01:39:42,410 about that well you can go on my website 2143 01:39:49,060 --> 01:39:46,580 it's a dr. Heather landcom but you can 2144 01:39:49,840 --> 01:39:49,070 also email me I always respond to emails 2145 01:39:53,890 --> 01:39:49,850 that's Heather 2146 01:39:55,780 --> 01:39:53,900 at dr. heather Lynn comm I get a lot of 2147 01:39:58,210 --> 01:39:55,790 emails so I might be a little slow to 2148 01:39:59,770 --> 01:39:58,220 respond but I always respond no matter 2149 01:40:02,080 --> 01:39:59,780 what is in the email I will always 2150 01:40:04,510 --> 01:40:02,090 respond so feel free to email me with 2151 01:40:05,979 --> 01:40:04,520 questions comments anything you want 2152 01:40:08,319 --> 01:40:05,989 Heather at dr. 2153 01:40:11,470 --> 01:40:08,329 Heather Lin calm you can also check out 2154 01:40:14,620 --> 01:40:11,480 my Facebook you know I think I'm kind of 2155 01:40:16,479 --> 01:40:14,630 maxed out on friends on my personal page 2156 01:40:21,609 --> 01:40:16,489 so I don't know it'll be maxed out on 2157 01:40:24,120 --> 01:40:21,619 friends Heather I think you made a new 2158 01:40:26,799 --> 01:40:24,130 one here I can tell you that I 2159 01:40:28,120 --> 01:40:26,809 appreciate that and I hope to make more 2160 01:40:29,770 --> 01:40:28,130 after tonight I'd love to hear from 2161 01:40:31,720 --> 01:40:29,780 people that's one of my favorite things 2162 01:40:33,600 --> 01:40:31,730 is to get emails because we learn from 2163 01:40:36,520 --> 01:40:33,610 each other I've learned more from 2164 01:40:39,279 --> 01:40:36,530 listeners and readers than I ever have 2165 01:40:41,890 --> 01:40:39,289 anywhere else so feel free to always 2166 01:40:46,410 --> 01:40:41,900 email me and the best way is Heather at 2167 01:40:48,790 --> 01:40:46,420 dr. heather Lynn comm okay guys great 2168 01:40:51,250 --> 01:40:48,800 Heather thanks so much for coming on the 2169 01:40:54,129 --> 01:40:51,260 show tonight it was a fantastic show and 2170 01:40:56,890 --> 01:40:54,139 it goes by so fast as always tonight is 2171 01:40:59,859 --> 01:40:56,900 no different it went by so fast you're a 2172 01:41:02,500 --> 01:40:59,869 great guest and thank you for coming on 2173 01:41:04,029 --> 01:41:02,510 and we're glad that you're back up and 2174 01:41:06,279 --> 01:41:04,039 running and you're back in good health 2175 01:41:08,560 --> 01:41:06,289 and good luck on your research and I'm 2176 01:41:10,930 --> 01:41:08,570 going to talk to you next month on the 2177 01:41:13,509 --> 01:41:10,940 Halloween show sounds good thank you so 2178 01:41:15,939 --> 01:41:13,519 much for having me you're welcome you're 2179 01:41:18,310 --> 01:41:15,949 welcome okay guys that's it for us here 2180 01:41:20,859 --> 01:41:18,320 at epic remember in a time of universal 2181 01:41:22,810 --> 01:41:20,869 deceit telling the truth that is a 2182 01:41:25,270 --> 01:41:22,820 revolutionary Act good night from all of 2183 01:41:26,979 --> 01:41:25,280 us here for my producer Joe champion ken 2184 01:41:28,629 --> 01:41:26,989 cherry from epic voyages and Keith 2185 01:41:31,120 --> 01:41:28,639 Roland from the dark matter radial 2186 01:41:33,009 --> 01:41:31,130 Network from the valley of the Giants 2187 01:41:36,450 --> 01:41:33,019 you're listening to epic voyages radio 2188 01:41:40,120 --> 01:41:36,460 and until next time the truth is